"bbc", "mandingo", Is It Racial Fetishization Of Black Men?

[aheidla]

So you rather make negative assumption without any actual proof first. Do you think that's rational? Are you claiming my experience is so outrageous that you can't just believe it at face value?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for this response because you did say that you never felt fetishized by white people. You didn't outright say you've never been fetishized by white people. I misread.

If that is how you feel, it's completely valid. Just the same, if we say we have felt fetishized in the past with personal experiences from them, those feelings are also valid. Bear in mind, that you are coming in here to offer your experience and asking for it to be respected, you should very well do the same for others.

You are pandering to those you hope will recognize you. Obviously the type that don't want to recognize that you are being fetishized because you are just happy that they are giving you attention.

I don't think it's fair to make assumptions about them based on what they, personally, felt during their own experiences. Just as we don't want our feelings about our experiences invalidated and dismissed, we should keep that same energy to someone who has felt the opposite.

Now, that said, neither side should be using their own personal experiences as "empirical evidence" that this absolutely always/never occurs. That is myopic and does nothing to foster an environment where a healthy dialogue can be made with various perspectives.

By all means, we should challenge each others beliefs and opinions, but under no circumstances should we be invalidating feelings or using our own feelings as "proof" that our beliefs and opinions are facts.

I have a lot of strong opinions on this topic and sometimes it may come off as if I'm generalizing. However, do try to understand that it is 100% coming from a place of emotion and, frankly, hurt feelings from past encounters with certain groups of people.

Just my .02.

 

[aheidla]

Not to be what person? Someone who doesn't make child like assumptions about someone's skin color over the Internet. God forbid...

The person pointing out the obvious way the "mystery" could've been solved without ever making such a statement in the first place.

Sorry. I've been accused of "digital blackface" before in other places online because of my opinions on certain topics and it does rub me the wrong way when people make "you ain't black" statements based solely on how we think as individuals. It's an ignorant, slave/plantation mindset. We are not a monolith.

 

[ahaahahahaa]

There's a new trend online calling out any person of color with a white partner self hating or they'll accuse them of being into raceplay/ racial fetishization. It's a very racist trend in my opinion, being anti miscigenation/anti interracial dating is a white supremacist talking point that unfortunately I'm seeing more and more POC engaging with.

 

[aheidla]

being anti miscigenation/anti interracial dating is a white supremacist talking point

This is inaccurate. Non-whites have the capacity to be racial supremacists as well. And no, white people didn't always "push them to that point due to oppression." Some people, regardless of race, sincerely believe in "sticking with your own."

Case in point:

And Malcolm X was influenced by Marcus Garvey. To imply that Black people couldn't come up with separatist ideas on our own is undermining our agency and ability to think for ourselves, however problematic those thoughts.

 

[ahaahahahaa]

This is inaccurate. Non-whites have the capacity to be racial supremacists as well. And no, white people didn't always "push them to that point due to oppression." Some people, regardless of race, sincerely believe in "sticking with your own."

Case in point:

And Malcolm X was influenced by Marcus Garvey. To imply that Black people couldn't come up with separatist ideas on our own is undermining our agency and ability to think for ourselves, however problematic those thoughts.

They're still upholding white supremacist thought since white people are the ones in power. If one day black people rise to power and forbid interracial mixing then it'll be black supremacy.

 

[aheidla]

They're still upholding white supremacist thought since white people are the ones in power. If one day black people rise to power and forbid interracial mixing then it'll be black supremacy.

This may have been the case decades ago, but it is no longer a factor today in the 2020s. We also have power, now. Lots of it. It has now become a white supremacist tactic/talking point (whether intentional or unintentional) to convince us that we do not and still require their aid and allyship to advance our communities.

Flip mode is the greatest.

 

[ahaahahahaa]

This may have been the case decades ago, but it is no longer a factor today in the 2020s. We also have power, now. Lots of it. It has now become a white supremacist tactic/talking point (whether intentional or unintentional) to convince us that we do not and still require their aid and allyship to advance our communities.

Flip mode is the greatest.

aham

 

[Sagittarius84]

There's a new trend online calling out any person of color with a white partner self hating or they'll accuse them of being into raceplay/ racial fetishization. It's a very racist trend in my opinion, being anti miscigenation/anti interracial dating is a white supremacist talking point that unfortunately I'm seeing more and more POC engaging with.

It's not a new trend, and unfortunately it is far more nuanced than that. The white supremacist talking point as far as I'm concerned is that when black people in our own spaces talk about some of the pros/cons of interracial dating that white people's opinion of it are in the hierarchy of considerations at all. God help me, do I never want to be seen as aligning with Dr. Umar or those that subscribe to his ideologies, but I do think there are valid considerations and concerns about race play and fetishization black men and women whom interacially mate and date should always be aware of; and even in the most overzealous attempts by other POC to criticize interracial dating, or attribute their participants as self hating, do I hear more of concerns about black community/infrastructure(or lack thereof) than any real consideration about what white people think.

If one day black people rise to power and forbid interracial mixing then it'll be black supremacy.

Reminds me of the alt right chatter about the concept of Wakanda prior to "Black Panther" releasing in the MCU...didn't think it was unrealistic because and of the advanced tech, and isolation, but because they couldn't imagine a dominant power in the world not enslaving and colonizing in the same manner as their forefathers.
I promise you, a solid black community in the West, interracial mixing will be more of a non black concern than anything, while we just add more and more cuisine to the "cookout" as it were.

 

[bigboaster]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for this response because you did say that you never felt fetishized by white people. You didn't outright say you've never been fetishized by white people. I misread.

Right I have never felt personally fetishized by white people. IMHO this is something that is subjective from person to person, (how much weight they give to such perceived attitudes/behaviors or not). If some white guy in his heart of hearts did fetishize me before... but just didn't say anything to my face? Does it even really matter then? I'd say, No!

Others might say it still does matter. It's a matter of priorities I guess.

If that is how you feel, it's completely valid. Just the same, if we say we have felt fetishized in the past with personal experiences from them, those feelings are also valid. Bear in mind, that you are coming in here to offer your experience and asking for it to be respected, you should very well do the same for others.

Naturally, I agree. I hopefully never suggested anyone's in here experiences were invalid just because I decided they were. I would need proof to make such a strong claim, and I can't know anyone's life in here beyond my own.

I don't think it's fair to make assumptions about them based on what they, personally, felt during their own experiences. Just as we don't want our feelings about our experiences invalidated and dismissed, we should keep that same energy to someone who has felt the opposite.

Now, that said, neither side should be using their own personal experiences as "empirical evidence" that this absolutely always/never occurs. That is myopic and does nothing to foster an environment where a healthy dialogue can be made with various perspectives.

By all means, we should challenge each others beliefs and opinions, but under no circumstances should we be invalidating feelings or using our own feelings as "proof" that our beliefs and opinions are facts.

I have a lot of strong opinions on this topic and sometimes it may come off as if I'm generalizing. However, do try to understand that it is 100% coming from a place of emotion and, frankly, hurt feelings from past encounters with certain groups of people.

Just my .02.

You are certainly a more reasonable and agreeable person than I originally assumed and for that I will apologize for making that unfair judgement. My bad! You seem well reasoned and introspective, which is rare on this website quite frankly.

 

[aheidla]

aham

No thanks, I eat kosher.

God help me, do I never want to be seen as aligning with Dr. Umar or those that subscribe to his ideologies, but I do think there are valid considerations and concerns about race play and fetishization black men and women whom interacially mate and date should always be aware of

The only valid consideration when it comes to any fetishization manner is consent, obviously, and also being treated with the respect and dignity of a human being with feelings. When it's two consenting adults and the person fetishizing still sees the other party as a human being worthy of respect (and treats them as such), it's not a problem. It's when they reduce the individual to nothing more than a fetish without considering the whole human that it becomes a problem. That has, unfortunately, been my personal experience. It wasn't fun.

As for Dr. Umar and his ilk, they can never, and don't ever, make sense. I'm sorry.

If you imply that your race can be "weakened" or "ruled over" because of a bunch of lightskins merely "existing" then you aren't saying much for your race. That applies to all races. Umar's ideologies are rooted in a fear of the Black race being weakened by letting White men "spray their ancestors in a Black woman's heaven." (That is an actual verbatim quote. He is unhinged, loud, and wrong).

^ This shit is unhelpful.

 

[HOU_HEADHUNTER]

Reddit has a lot of gems from different individuals from different walks of life which is why I often browse the comments on such topics as this. There are a lot of similar threads discussing the fetishization of black men. Here is one that I found worthy of sharing.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Reddit has a lot of gems from different individuals from different walks of life which is why I often browse the comments on such topics as this. There are a lot of similar threads discussing the fetishization of black men. Here is one that I found worthy of sharing.

View attachment 129472751

Good observation...as I've referenced earlier the black male fetishization is definitely a concern interracially, but I think the only reason that hits our community so profoundly is the convergent evolution of the hypermasculine ideal and expectations of black women. Sure it's bad that "Becky" only lusts after the idea of a "big dick thugging Tyrone", but what hits different is when women that share our skin color only seem to genuinely desire and respect that same microcosm of black men; even if the origins of such desires come from a different space than fetishizing. And another irony is because of some of still held prejudices about black people, a black man that perhaps isn't the hyper masculine ideal of women whom share his skin color, may be that by default to a woman whom doesn't, and so now you have a situation where the only place his masculinity is legitimized is amongst a group of women that see him as less than human, further driving the schism from black women whom so readily identify the disrespect imparted upon black men but never seem to gather why black men will seek out that attention as opposed to intraracial attention they only offer to select few black men.

 

[HOU_HEADHUNTER]

Good observation...as I've referenced earlier the black male fetishization is definitely a concern interracially, but I think the only reason that hits our community so profoundly is the convergent evolution of the hypermasculine ideal and expectations of black women. Sure it's bad that "Becky" only lusts after the idea of a "big dick thugging Tyrone", but what hits different is when women that share our skin color only seem to genuinely desire and respect that same microcosm of black men; even if the origins of such desires come from a different space than fetishizing. And another irony is because of some of still held prejudices about black people, a black man that perhaps isn't the hyper masculine ideal of women whom share his skin color, may be that by default to a woman whom doesn't, and so now you have a situation where the only place his masculinity is legitimized is amongst a group of women that see him as less than human, further driving the schism from black women whom so readily identify the disrespect imparted upon black men but never seem to gather why black men will seek out that attention as opposed to intraracial attention they only offer to select few black men.

Glad you and others are sharing this perspective because I can definitely see it that way also. I'm gay so my thoughts were always centered around black gay men being fetishized by men of other races and then I realized it was also something that straight black men deal with in the same way. Now that you mention black women and the way they have those same expectations about black masculinity, I can definitely see that being the case and now I have to also think of black gay men and how they probably think the same. Masculinity is ideal in the gay world and there is this idea of what masculinity looks like especially with black men. I do think we are all brainwashed by the same media and propaganda that other races are seeing. I'm definitely interested in exploring how black women are affected by fetishization also. I've been finding some interesting comments on reddit from black women on this topic also.

 

[aheidla]

I'm definitely interested in exploring how black women are affected by fetishization also.

Well, long story short, it made me hate sex and have an aversion/resentment to anyone, regardless of race or gender, showing sexual interest in/desire for me.

Truth be told, as I started to develop, it's when I seriously started to hate dressing feminine or wearing anything that would accentuate my shape because walking home from school became a problem with regards to how my male peers and even grown-ass men talked to and/or reacted to me. I can't even specify what age this started at because the mods would remove it for being under 18, so just use your imagination on how damaging that probably was to me.

In all situations, the males in questions were also Black. So, there was a lot of "friendly fire" when I was coming up and trying to learn how to adjust to becoming a young woman in that environment. I learned dressing like a dude made it stop. And the rest is history.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Well, long story short, it made me hate sex and have an aversion/resentment to anyone, regardless of race or gender, showing sexual interest in/desire for me.

Truth be told, as I started to develop, it's when I seriously started to hate dressing feminine or wearing anything that would accentuate my shape because walking home from school became a problem with regards to how my male peers and even grown-ass men talked to and/or reacted to me. I can't even specify what age this started at because the mods would remove it for being under 18, so just use your imagination on how damaging that probably was to me.

In all situations, the males in questions were also Black. So, there was a lot of "friendly fire" when I was coming up and trying to learn how to adjust to becoming a young woman in that environment. I learned dressing like a dude made it stop. And the rest is history.

Genuine question, from a female perspective is it really the fetishism or is it how it's commonly acted upon that drives the aversion Ive heard many black women report...if say, the primary methodology men expressed sexual interest was via unsolicited monetary gifts and social experiences do you think the damage would be the same or do you think black women would find themselves in a similar situation to sexually fetishized black men?
Because, not that I don't empathize with the female experience when it comes to the myriad of ways men express sexual desire, but it almost seems like one has to have an abundance of sexual options/access to have the privilege to complain about it.
And intraracially what is the determining factor between sexual fetishization and non committal sexual desire, and will that distinction even matter to someone whose sexual access/opportunities affords them the ability to be highly selective without mitigating their odds?

 

[aheidla]

Genuine question, from a female perspective is it really the fetishism or is it how it's commonly acted upon that drives the aversion Ive heard many black women report...if say, the primary methodology men expressed sexual interest was via unsolicited monetary gifts and social experiences do you think the damage would be the same or do you think black women would find themselves in a similar situation to sexually fetishized black men?
Because, not that I don't empathize with the female experience when it comes to the myriad of ways men express sexual desire, but it almost seems like one has to have an abundance of sexual options/access to have the privilege to complain about it.
And intraracially what is the determining factor between sexual fetishization and non committal sexual desire, and will that distinction even matter to someone whose sexual access/opportunities affords them the ability to be highly selective without mitigating their odds?

Honestly, what scarred me for life was the adult men who expressed sexual desire towards me when I was a minor. I can't speak for other women, specifically straight women because a lot of them still not only actively seek out men to sleep with, but a lot of them aren't exactly gentlemen nor do they have good character. So, I don't know. But that's what fucked me up. Being targeted as a minor. Severely. I viewed all males of all ages as sexual predators for a very long time because of that. It's that simple.

 

[Sagittarius84]

Honestly, what scarred me for life was the adult men who expressed sexual desire towards me when I was a minor. I can't speak for other women, specifically straight women because a lot of them still not only actively seek out men to sleep with, but a lot of them aren't exactly gentlemen nor do they have good character. So, I don't know. But that's what fucked me up. Being targeted as a minor. Severely. I viewed all males of all ages as sexual predators for a very long time because of that. It's that simple.

I understand that, but specifically in the case of fetishizing black men and boys the unique and underlying deviousness is that it typically manifests itself initially into the very thing we are seeking and/or are deficient in, namely sexual access, with the ugliness coming on the backend. I would imagine for most young women, unsolicited sexual desire expressed by adult men is ugliness upfront, but as you alluded to elsewhere women and girls find often ways to profit off of that desire on the backend and at the very least tend to be very aware of what's going on. My question is if your fetishization on the front end gave you what you might consider positive consequences, such socioeconomic access or privilege, or some construct of security or commitment and then revealed the inhumanity on the backend after your desires were met, do you think you and other black women and girls whom have been/are being fetishized would be as aloof about it as black men and boys generally tend to be?

 

[aheidla]

My question is if your fetishization on the front end gave you what you might consider positive consequences, such socioeconomic access or privilege, or some construct of security or commitment and then revealed the inhumanity on the backend after your desires were met, do you think you and other black women and girls whom have been/are being fetishized would be as aloof about it as black men and boys generally tend to be?

I'm sorry. I'm celebrating 4/20 late. Huh?

 

[Sagittarius84]

I'm sorry. I'm celebrating 4/20 late. Huh?

Oh you choose a specific day of the yr to celebrate, huh? Lol
You, and other black women and girls seem to have a supposedly perceptual edge in discerning or identifying fetishism from genuine desire from non black individuals; which is often paired with ire for black men and boys for not being as able or willing to identify the fetishism that is aimed towards them...my question is do you think women and girls would be as equally largely aloof about being sexually fetishized as their male counterparts, if said fetishizing initially satiated their primary desires as it tends to do for boys and men?

 

[Sagittarius84]

I'd also like to point out from an intraracial perspective what I think is an interesting phenomenon when it comes to black men's and black women's respective opinions of interracial couplings and how much if any fetishizing plays into them. When it comes to high profile, famous, or prominent individuals we tend to identify black M/non black F as some sort of fetish in play but black F/non black M as a positive "value alignment", but when it comes to the reality of everyday folk black M/non black F tend to present more as genuine desire, where black F/non black M often seem to have heavy fetishism in play.