Straight men, gay internet fantasies?

This thread has grown out of some comments I made on these boards a while ago about the amount of unsolicited sexual 'come-ons' that I have received both via PMs and in chat rooms (not only at LPSG) from self-declared "straight" guys.

While many of us on these boards have become über-familiar with the terms heteroflexible and homoflexible, a recently published study from Sweden's Malmö University College also puts forward a case for positing the distinct phenomenon of virtual heteroflexibility in straight men, finding many willing to explore elements of their sexuality online that would go untested in real life.

I think the study is excessively monofocal, considering only the case of straight men exploring gay fantasies, when I have no doubt that self-declared "gay" men may also exhibit virtual homoflexibility. I, for one, am certainly far more comfortable to play with my 10% online than in real life (cease any smutty thoughts that the wording of this sentence may have induced right now).

While I think that labeling of human sexualities is ultimately a counterproductive means of tying oneself to a set, "easily-explained" sexuality for life, I do think that as long as people are using such labels, it's worth considering how much more fluid these can become online.

So really I'm looking for others to maybe give examples of experiences they've had in the virtual arena that might relate to the question: why do straight guys hit on gay guys online so much? Because clearly it's far more complex an issue than simply being able to be explained away by simple notions of 'repression' or 'closet cases', which is the usual set explanation I've known people give for this phenomenon in the past.

I think that the question "why do gays guys hit on straight guys online so much?" is equally relevant, although I suspect that a whole different series of impulses come into play in these instances (desire to 'turn'; wishing-for-the-forbidden-fruit; previous experience of virtual heteroflexibility leading to the conclusion that all "straight"-identifying men online may be willing to explore same-sex relations; etc. etc.).


Here's a report from 9th March 2006 on the Malmö findings:

Straight Men Use Internet To Indulge Homosexual Fantasies

A new report from Malmö University College in Sweden has found that a surprising number of ostensibly heterosexual men are having cyber-sex with other men. Michael W. Ross, author of the dissertation Typing, Doing and Being - A Study of Men Who Have Sex with Men and Sexuality on the Internet, believes it is because the Internet has created an anonymous environment where people can experiment with their sexuality.

The report, according to Ross, shows that the Internet is changing human sexuality and it could provide new - and anonymous - methods for health workers to reach people. "The findings show that we reach people via the Internet that we would never, or only with difficulty, have reached in traditional ways," said Ross. He cited as an example the fact that among men who have sex with other men, those reached via Internet questionnaires - compared with contacts made by more traditional ways - were younger, less well-educated, more often residents of smaller towns and rural areas, and more bisexually oriented.

Ross also examines social scientific theories and sexuality in relation to the Internet, including the possibility of going halfway between fantasy and action, the Internet as an arena for sexual experimentation, and the impact of the Internet regarding the creation of sexual cultures and sexuality. "When I examined the data regarding the Internet and sexuality in Sweden, I understood that it was in fact a new space for sexual interaction, an 'erotic oasis,' that does not resemble other spaces for sexual encounters. I was fascinated by what was going on via the Internet," explained Ross.

He also examines the phenomenon of "misrepresentation," where people provide a different image of themselves on the Internet. "Data from the Swedish study show that 10 percent of those interviewed were heterosexual men who had had cyber-sex with another man," said Ross. "This is something new. Previously these fantasies only played out in the mind of the individual, but now she or he can practice them interactively via the Internet with the protection of anonymity. The borders between the concepts of who you are, [what's] true and false can shift."

Source:
http://www.altpenis.com/penis_news/2...runc_sys.shtml

Interesting.

One might also ask if the Internet is driving more experimentation among straight men, or whether it is simply an easy and safe outlet for a curiosity that has always been present, formerly repressed.

Well, I can see that using the internet
would certainly make more guys brave
to try forbidden things and it can also
give a handy cloak of anonymity.

I am wondering too though...take for
instance our site here, I am often asked
to chat and I make no broad statements
that an innocent invitation for a chat
could/would lead to anything more, yet
I do get the feeling if I accepted the
invitations that that aspect would also
be a possiblity.

I have spoken to men before and sex
always seems to be brought into the
mix, it's perfectly natural. Yet because
there are so many men at the site and
far less women, you notice most women
do decline to chat, myself included.

So this leaves many straight men with a
need to 'vent', shall we say...so possibly
they will chat with other men and the
talk turns to sex yet again, with the
results that are found in the study.

That is very a very interesting research, and I think it is definately true. I have seen it here, and have heard people talk about it in real life.

Professor Mike Ross is a friend of mine from way back. In the late 70s I did my doctoral thesis on how men construe their sexual orientation. Following my research results, Mike and I agreed that labelling and self-labelling were social constructs and only had a moderate correlation with actual behaviour or fantasy.

Basically, I believe that most men are far more flexible than they choose to either admit to themselves or declare to others. If you look at Shere Hite's survey work, she makes the point that a sizable percentage of men who state that they are heterosexual either have or would fantasise about sucking dick or being fucked by a guy though many went on to say that they wouldn't do it in reality because the dick would be attached to another man.

I think that gay porn on the Internet, chatrooms and such bridge the psychological gap between private fantasy and anonymous reality. So my view is that the flexibility has always been there and this is just a newer manifestation.

Bear in mind that historically many men were functionally bisexual. Richard the Lionheart would have thought of himself as straight as would anyone who knew him. But he did have sex with several men, including the King of France and whilst on the Crusades he had his "friend" Blondel. He was both insertee and inserter in anal intercourse.

The categorisation into gay, straight, bi, bi-curious and whatever-flexible are relatively recent distinctions.

Being a guy who hasn't subjected themselves to any sort of male-male sexual contact, I can say that I still consider myself straight/heteroflexible. I am also a guy who partakes in ALOT of Flirting and Alot of Sexually-explicit chatting.

Why do I do it? Keeping it simple, I flirt because it makes me feel good. I enjoy giving pleasure and being open to ideas. It also allows to me to explore different aspects of myself, that I wouldn't likely consider in real life. The Internet adds the being anonymous and low risk. That adds to my pleasure as well. I like the idea of being as slutty as possible, and having people not really sure of who I am.

Of course I agree that all labels throughout society and culture are illusory attempts to 'contain' (and thus 'control') experiential phenomena. In the field of sexuality specifically, the rigidity of the terms "gay", "straight" and "bi" has unquestionably led many both to 'gloss over' many experiential elements of their own sexuality and equally to lead potentially unfulfilled (sex) lives if they attempted to adhere completely to the ostensible 'correct' behavioral model imposed by the label attached to their "own" sexuality.

It's ironic to note that one of the key proponents of "sexual reform" and sexology (through the influence of his literature on both sides on the Atlantic) from the 1890s through to the early 1930s, Magnus Hirschfeld, was always careful to use terms such as "homosexual", "bisexual", "intersexual" or "heterosexual" with the unambiguous caveat that these were being used merely as "idealized notions" with no basis in reality in their absolute states. In one 1914 study he indeed undertakes a rhetorical dissection of the number of possible articulations of sexuality that might be contained within the notion "homosexuality", in which he stops once he reaches a ludicrous 6-figure number of possible inflections, pointing out that ultimately, the potential infinity of articulations of human sexuality make the quest to pinpoint and 'contain' ridiculous.

In the highly politicized moves towards equality that have followed, however, such thoughts have become lost amid the need to present solidarity in the cause. Equally, for opponents, the ability to define "the enemy" with ease in a single category has doubtless proved a useful tool as well: a lone enemy is easier to battle than an infinite number of perceived foes, just as a lone cause is easier to fight for than an endlessly disparate number of micro-causes.

I am actually coming to the conclusion that I should perhaps be somewhat heartened to receive at least some of the come-ons that I have from 'straight' men.. since these again point to a dissolution of self-imposed, restraining and repressive boundaries.

Thanks, Alex, I think this topic is really interesting. There are so many aspects which just don't get discussed in society at large. I often feel like our understanding of sexual orientation is in its infancy.

A few points: You have to separate out some percentage of guys who are secretly gay or bisexual and just represent themselves as straight for obvious reasons. The internet is an easy, anonymous outlet for their sexual desires.

But, as anyone who reads through LPSG can see, there are a number of guys who are strongly attracted to women but are also turned on by cocks to varying degrees (often starting with their own). Some only want to look at and talk about them, others want a little contact. I don't think "bisexual" is really the right word for them - theirs is not the true attraction to both men and women that bisexual people describe.

Systems like the Kinsey scale and our LPSG percentages are a start, but they don't fully or correctly account for the various aspects and nuances of sexual orientation. Like many have said, "labels" are inexact at best and worthless at worst. Also, a careful look at all this suggests that whatever genetic roots may underlie sexual orientation, they are overridden in some way by our psychological make-up: the variation that we're talking about could not come simply from the presence or absence of a gene.

I need to address this interesting topic more fully. I'm in a bit of a rush just now alex but this is indeed an interesting topic and worthy of real discussion.

I have an internet response and a real life one to recount.

For the moment suffice it to say that I have experienced the same thing you have re this site and "hetero" male come ons. I've had to simply ignore certain members. Beyond that I have a friend in Manchester England who I met on Yahoo cams last summer and, though he swears up and down, he's 100% heterosexual, I find him pming me often when I sign onto yahoo because he says my 'chat' can get him off better than any female. Go figure.

He's 22 an auto mechanic and is perfectly amazing to look at. When I've asked.. before our cam session... if we were to meet in England and end up at his house for a night if we'd actually be able to do the things I describe while we're having "virtual sex" he says invariably and without equivocation. ''No. I'm not into guys. I just like how into my cock you are." But remember he's watching me too.

I was married for a short time in my early 20s (yes, to a woman). Her brother became my off-again-on-again lover almost immediately and his and my relationship long outlived the one I had with his sister. He's married now with a 13 year old son. I'm convinced he's never had sex with another male. He's honest enough to have admitted it to me long ago if he had and goodness knows I've asked him plenty of times. Yet (to this day) when we get together - and that's infrequent since he lives nine hours from me - the sexual energy is palpable and when we make love (notice I did not say "have sex") it's unmitigatedly passionate. It has an "out of body" quality to it in fact.

No one knows of our sexual connection. Wait, not true. Two people were told of it but believe it's a thing of the past. It's not. If I see him only twice a year both of those times we'll be intimate. (How 'Brokeback' of me)

For the life of me... there's a monstrous piece of me that loves him in spite of my committed love for my boyfriend.

"Dan" and I are an entity unto ourselves.

There might be another way of describing this & that would be how straight guys may be interested in commuicating with gay guys about a whole range of topics. It's certainly true for me. LPSG is a place where I can talk with girls & guys who have a whole set of experiences & interests different than mine. I've actually met people here who I've become friends with. I feel freer to ask personal questions & to share my own feelings about stuff I wouldn't normally talk about it. From that POV I think some of this may be true.

I think what you state here HSP supports the contention many of us have that society largely prohibits heterosexual men from expressing their true sexual identities (whatever they maybe) per se. That's the pity of thing and your statement (I checked your age) shows that it's as unfortunately so now as it was when I was your age.

Anonymity is the thing that liberates these fellows

People don't have much to fear in terms of social repercussions in the relatively safe arena that is the internet, no vested identity to maintain, no familial or workplace responsibilities

I think that masquerade is a form of play that is engaged that might realize secret interests and generate responses from the playmate that titillate and flatter the initiator

It certainly has a role in how many fakers dance the dance here and on many other boards and chat rooms, with great investments of time and elaborate fiction and stolen photos to sculpt and perfect that imposter persona

Alex, your remarks pertain to straight self labelled men coming on to gay men. Pretty well all of the pms I get from strangers here are from "straight men" who want to cam (wtf)

Elsewhere, my assumption is that in chat rooms most of the sexually aggressive females are often in actuality males posing as such.

The puzzling part is why the pose as 100% straight male is adopted here, as though they think they possess some "virginity" that is elusive and highly sought after, or that the breaking the taboo of gender bending role play is integral to their excitement

I suppose the illicit nature of it has something to do with the excitement... "if sex isn't dirty you're not doing it right" to paraphrase Woody Allen

Great question Alex.

I think straight men flirt with gay guys to test their powers.

I have a great straight friend, a former roommate with the biggest dick I've ever seen, 12+, who flirted with me constantly, even though he is straight as the day is long. He is weak in other areas of his life, and is a little jealous of my brains. But he knows his dick will shut me up, and is an exhibitionist. The first summer we lived together the A/C went out, and he was naked 24/7 because of the heat (this was in grad school, in a little studio apt we shared). He just liked the effect his dick had on me, even though he had no intention whatsoever of doing anything sexual with a guy.

The world is a big and complex place, and we don't always feel powerful. If flirting with a gay guy makes you feel powerful, it can be fun. And chances are a gay guy won't mind too much. I didn't. I was just worried about his dick dangling just beyond the cutting board while he chopped zucchini.

To begin, let me first state this is a very, very intriguing and enlightening thread. It’s great that our eyes are coming open to the very fluid nature of sexuality, and our minds – though at a pace slower than I should like – are embracing various concepts that are a corollary of our closer exploration of the human sexual appeal. That is to say, terms such as hetero-flexible and homo-flexible are beneficial in that they widen the scope of sexual labels. At the very least this should help many curious individual find their bearing and finally – if only slightly – gain understanding of themselves and the dynamic they share with the rest of the world.

Secondly, the content of this thread is quite complex. For as much as it unveils several questions – questions that I know I’ve had, anyway – and their answers, it simultaneously gives rise to many more questions. However, it appears that the more pressing concern here is: Why do straight guys hit on gay guys online so much?

Quite frankly, I don’t know exactly why this is done; in my mind, it seems that both the question and the answer are rather subjective. I can’t think any one hard and fast response that can suit this question. Nevertheless there remains an explanation that could possibly make things a little clear.

I mentioned earlier in this post of ‘curious individuals’ endeavoring to ‘find their bearing’. This may very well have something to do with it [self-identified heterosexual men using the internet as an arena to pursue the same sex], and quite honestly, I can not think of a better way to test the waters. Understand that the internet is a form of medium where individuals are able to maintain their anonymity and, more importantly, are not inconvenienced with the element of responsibility. That alone should give us insight into why the internet appears to be an oasis to straight men looking to bend their sexuality outside of the very unbendable, judgmental ‘real life.’

Quintessentially, when relations are formed via the internet, it is no more than two (or more if that’s your liking) perfect strangers who have engineered a relationship based solely on … words. That is to say you each have been tantalized by the idea of one another. Though it seems relatively abstract in nature, it is this kind of relationship that may lend itself as ‘stable ground’ when one is trying to discover where on the continuum their sexuality lies.

Suffice it to say that this is a ‘new way’ of testing your sexuality. To own the truth, society won’t allow sexual exploration through any other means, other than those means which are covertly executed. It’s too bad we are not above ridicule and other means of putting people to an open shame. Again, this is why the internet is ever so enticing.

Moreover, things have to be taken in small (or smaller) doses; therefore, some may reconcile within themselves: if I can enjoy a homosexual or bi-sexual relationship over the internet, I could possibly enjoy one in real life. I’m not saying this is exactly the protocol one should follow, but, as I said earlier, it’s all rather subjective and people should discover their own way.

The internet is quite an interesting sort of medium. It links people from all around the world into one central location. Now, not only has it linked us together, but it appears it may have done us one better – given us a means to help understand ourselves a little better. People are relentlessly searching out ways to gain a more in-depth perception of their own lives and selves – it just so happens that in this case the internet has proven to be rather effective tool.

Clearly, this is why Al Gore created the internet!

I'm not sure if it's my age or my interests, but I've been more pulled in by how guys relate to each other emotionally than just sexually. Since I've been on this site I've talked with many guys about how I'd like to form loving friendhships with others as a straight male. For me the "Large Penis" part of this site is a way for me to discover what there is about us males that keeps us apart emotionally or maybe what brings us together. So while the whole thing about big cocks may be erotic or stimulating, I find what keeps bringing me back to this site is the deeper connection with the men here, which I don't have that much in my college life. As a straight guy I'm more interested in the size of the hearts of people here than I am in the size of their cocks.