07-27-2008
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#31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by faceking What's funny/odd is that NPR is one of the most liberal, Democrat-apologist outlets there is. They are HARDLY right leaning. |
Yeah,,,that was my point,,you would at least think they would pick a poll biased towards the Democrats? | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mindseye That's a shallllllllow retort, and you've over-used it.
When one news outlet says one thing, and two dozen news outlets say something different, it requires extraordinary justification to defend the one outlier. You haven't provided that, and from what I've seen, it may be beyond your means. | The news outlets not using Toss Up are giving more states to Obama when it is close in the state. It helps to put the appearance of Obama being far in the lead. More bias in the liberal media. Quote:
Originally Posted by mindseye It's not odd in this case: NPR outsources their political polling to two other firms: Greenberg Quinlan Rosner, and Public Opinion Strategies.
Public Opinion Strategies identifies themselves as a " Republican polling firm", so you can't pin their polling results on NPR's editorial policies. | It is to their credit that NPR utilizes an opposing view to balance out their polling. So, just because one firm is Republican doesn't mean it is biased or irrevelant. And I for one believe NPR's editorial policies on that matter are needed to get the best information.
And the McCain Campaign is not using his POW record as you Dee suggest. His website gives his background just as Obama does. Barack Obama just doesn't happen to be a War hero or have a particularly esteemed record. | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#33 (permalink)
| | | Pdxman,
At this point this is all so much conjecture. The only thing we all can do is wait and see what the end will be. I am just curious...what do you think is going to happen if Obama wins? | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#34 (permalink)
| | | Thank you Deeblackthrorne! I feel the same way. All what comes out of this mans mouth is "I was POW.....I was a POW .....I was POW".....yes it's fantastic that you fought for this country and all, but wow if you are running for president of the United States of America, you need some more experience than just being a POW. I have noticed that is all what he says in his campaign ads as well on TV. Need something more from him... Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeBlackthorne Wait a minute. Aren't the Republicans doing the same thing except they're doing a shit job of hiding their contempt for the guy who won their nod? Call me when McCain has something more worthwhile to say than recounting his POW experience, which, I'm sorry, doesn't make him any more qualified to run this country.
Better yet, call me when any McCain supporter can articulate the guy's political platform in a thoughtful and interesting way. Spare the talking points. We know he doesn't like Obama. | | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#35 (permalink)
| | | Just about everyone here needs to STFU about "experience", for both candidates. VERY few former presidents have had experience, and that is hardly something to knock a candidate for. McCain doesn't really have experience, Obama doesn't really have experience, Bush had no experience, Clinton had no experiece, Bush Sr. had a little experience, Reagan no experience, Carter no experience, Ford no experience, Nixon no experience, Kennedy no experience...and the list goes on. Name another current Republican and Democrat that you consider "experienced" enough to run our country, one that everyone will agree upon...you can't do it, can you?
Please stop giving mindless people mindless polls that don't really show anything except for specualtion. There's a reason we have an electoral college and the popular vote doesn't count, can anyone here, besides Flashy and FK, figure it out? | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pdxman Whoopie,,,all those midwestern and southern states Obama "won" didn't really matter at all. Every state is solid Republican or leaning Republican in the general election. All the Obamaites were so damn impressed that Obama won southern states and mountain/midwest states that they failed to realize or they blocked it out that ALL THESE STATES HAVE AN OVERWHELMINGLY REPUBLICAN GENERAL POPULATION. Map link: NPR: 2008 Election Map for Presidential Election, House, Senate, and Governor Elections | That's something I've been saying for a LONG time, and people laughed at me during the Primary when I brought it up. Even if a Democrat wins a state in the Primary, that doesn't mean it's going to mean a definitive victory in the real election in November. The Primary elections don't take into consideration the other parties. Obama, a Democrat, was only put up against another Democrat. Not another Republican candidate. McCain's results in the Republican Primary didn't affect any outcome in the Democratic one. So even if Obama won his Primary in these states, that's still a far cry from a decisive victory when the vote really counts.
Regardless of this, Democrats have been known to win elections without a lot of support in the midwestern states. I still remain optimistic about the November election, even though there's definitely room for concern. We still have 4 months of this before we can finally vote and ANYTHING can happen before then. | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Trinity There are a few states off on both maps...but I believe NPR is closer to the truth than RealClearPolitics. (RCP should have taken polls from Rasmussen, Quinnipiac and Survey USA from May until July and averaged them individually first, not different dates from different polls.)
If you take the NPR map and take 27 away from McCain/Republicn. You have a close race...which is what the polls say...give or take a few electoral votes for either side.
It is still a tight race and the Republicans have a better chance than most would have thought in this post Bush election.
We will hold you to that.
That map is all off. He should use toss up because "barely" and "weak" just don't cut it. Had to throw that map out.
No. Obama isn't up by 15 points.
Why is it unpleasant to discuss anything not pro-Obama? This map has just as much validity as RealClearPolitics. Why does discussion of information that is contrary to Obama go over into personal and emotional talk?
The right candidate for President sure isn't Obama. And even those who came out to cheer didn't necessarily think so. He won positivity not votes. He was a "rockstar"...an american idol with a photo op. He was not a Leader. A true Presidential leader would have visited the wounded troops. | "There you go again........this load of crap about Senator Obama NOT visiting the Troops has been thoroughly de-bunked and discussed...Senator Obama met with and Visited the troops in both iraq and Afghanistan where he was warmly received by the troops in both places. He visited them as part of Congressional Delegation. He had intended, and was given permission, to visit the troops in Landstuhl Germany, but the day before his arrival was DENIED access to them by the same Pentagon. The Military said he was no longer traveling as a "congressional delegation" and denied him access to the troops in germany. Senator Obama did not want to have the appearance of "Politicizing" his visit with the troops and acquiesed to the military's denial without complaint. The only people still saying that Senator Obama did not visit the troops on his successful trip abroad are Senator mcCain, who made it into a lame attack ad that has been ridiculed by anyone with a brain, and the right wing "wingnuts"!
From Face the Nation this morning, an exchange with Senator Reed(D) and Senator Hagel(R): BOB SCHIEFFER: Senator Reed, now you’ve done a lot of these trips. They call them "codels," "congressional delegations," go. Are you ever allowed to take cameras when you go in to visit wounded troops? I thought that was sort of the general rule that everybody knew about.
JACK REED: I don’t think Senator Obama would have done that. Senator Hagel, Senator Obama and I visited the combat support hospital at Baghdad to thank those nurses, those doctors, to see patients that were there, to bring a bit of greetings from home and profound thanks. That should be in the ad that Senator McCain is running. I think Senator Obama made a very wise choice. Any suggestion that a visit to a military hospital would be political, he made the wise choice not to go. But when you were in Baghdad we made a point at the end of a very exhausting day to go in and see these magnificent young Americans and those doctors and nurses that give such tremendous care without a lot of fanfare, just to say thanks. He did it-the same thing. We went-we didn’t stay in Kabul. We went to Jalalabad to see the soldiers of the 173rd. We stopped in Basra to see our soldiers down there. We went into Anbar province to see soldiers there. That is a completely distorted, and, I think, inappropriate advertisement.
CHUCK HAGEL: Let me add to that. As you know, Bob, the congressional delegation that you referred to ended when we parted in Jordan. At that point, it was a political trip for Senator Obama. I think it would have been inappropriate for him and certainly he would have been criticized by the McCain people and the press and probably should have been if on a political trip in Europe paid for by political funds-not the taxpayers-to go, essentially, then and be accused of using our wounded men and women as props for his campaign. I think the judgment there-and I don’t know the facts by the way. I know what you’ve just read. No one has asked me about it other than what you’ve just asked about. But I think it would be totally inappropriate for him on a campaign trip to go to a military hospital and use those soldiers as props. So I think he probably, based on what I know, he did the right thing. We saw troops everywhere we went on the congressional delegation. We went out of our way to see those troops. We wanted to see those troops. And that’s part of our job to see those troops, by the way, and listen to those troops, Bob. And we did.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you think that ad was appropriate?
CHUCK HAGEL: I do not think it was appropriate.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You do not.
CHUCK HAGEL: I do not. | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#38 (permalink)
| | | There is no question that Obama leads all reputable national polls. Does anyone share my concern, however, that polling data may not be truly reflective of voter intent? During the Democratic primaries we saw a number of polling anomalies only explainable by people telling pollsters one thing in public and then voting differently in private. Pollsters began adjusting the Obama numbers downward to account for the so-called "Bradley effect." Are pollsters still taking the "Bradley effect" into account? If not, most polls are probably still within the margin of error for either candidate. Irrespective of what the polls now indicate, I suspect this race is much closer than most of us realize. There is a lot of time between now and November and Democrats should not be lulled into a false sense of security based solely upon current favorable polling numbers. | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#39 (permalink)
| | | DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN! 'nuff said. | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#40 (permalink)
| | | The only glaring anomoly in primary polling i recollect was in new hampshire where Senator Obama would win according tom the polls. Most of the other "anomolies" were the UNDERESTIMATION of Senator Obama's margin of victor in states that he won. In my opinion, the "Bradley Effect" is not in play this election cycle.I'E People telling a pollster they are going to vote for the "black" candidate and changing their minds in the privacy of the voting booth. Senator obama won in 2 of the "whitest" states in the union, Iowa and michigan, against a Formidable Challenger in Senator Clinton. | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#41 (permalink)
| | | I used to think the election process for England was complicated, but I'm totally WTFed with the way yours is done. :S | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lucky8 Just about everyone here needs to STFU about "experience", for both candidates. VERY few former presidents have had experience, and that is hardly something to knock a candidate for. McCain doesn't really have experience, Obama doesn't really have experience, Bush had no experience, Clinton had no experiece, Bush Sr. had a little experience, Reagan no experience, Carter no experience, Ford no experience, Nixon no experience, Kennedy no experience...and the list goes on. | Well, long-serving U.S. senators would seem to have some experience, lucky.
Governors? Perhaps a bit less relevant experience ... but not none.
Ford certainly had a fair amount of experience.
But Nixon had the greatest amount of experience and was arguably the worst president.
What, for you, constitutes experience, lucky?
Having already served a presidential term while running for re-election?
That's a pretty marrow definition. | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rubber_JonnyN I used to think the election process for England was complicated, but I'm totally WTFed with the way yours is done. :S | Complicated, corrupt, and tedious. Mccain has yet to be held accountable for the FEDERAL LAW HE BENT to get on ballots in several states. If Mccain gets elected, I guess we'll do like Bush and ignore the irony of a Commander in Chief who broke the law to get the position. | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by marleyisalegend Exactly. Mccain's ONLY strong point is his war experience | Well, considering we are in the middle of two wars... | | | |
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07-27-2008
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#45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mattbuddy yes it's fantastic that you fought for this country and all, but wow if you are running for president of the United States of America, you need some more experience than just being a POW. | Like being a community organizer? | | | |
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