Should Canada Still Offer Refuge to American Military Deserters?

Of course - all countries should - and not only for US deserters. No one should be prosecuted for fleeing from a war.

Right on!!!

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Originally Posted by 1BiGG1 It would be nice if some of you would stop with this ridiculousness! Many Americas died in the Gulf War and Saddam ended up living because he signed a surrender agreement. Saddam spent a decade + breaking the terms of his surrender agreement in every way possible including shooting at American jets patrolling the no-fly zone.

If you think that it's OK to invade a country just because they get under your skin, then you have serious ethical issues.

Ethics aside, here are the legal facts: To invade Iraq, Bush was, firstly, required to prove to the Congress that Iraq was in violation of UN Resolutions by still being in possession of weapons of mass destruction, and secondly, that Iraq was behind 9-11. These requirements were never met, so according to US law, the Iraq war is illegal. Also, American planes shot down Iraqi planes in Iraqi airspace before the war, so does that mean that Iraq should have invaded the US?

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Originally Posted by 1BiGG1 Please stop pretending we reentered Iraq with "dishonesty", "false information" or any of the other baseless conspiracy theories flying around.

I don't know which is worse: the lies that the Bush administration told the Americans, or the fact that they got away with it. The lie that bothers me the most is the claim that Hussein obtained unanium from Africa. It particularily bothers me because the Bush admin knew that this was false intelligence. This isn't a baseless conspiracy theory, just the truth that came from Bush's own administration. I am sorely tempted to start a chronological laundry list of lies that W has told the world about the war.

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Originally Posted by 1BiGG1 While it may be perfectly fine with you Saddam spent a decade+ laughing in the faces of the dead, maimed & injured Americans that fought prior to his surrender it’s not fine with me. While it may be perfectly fine with you some of our alleged allies like France fucked us by not enforcing UN Mandates against Saddam because they were fucking us with the oil-for-food thingy it’s not fine with me.

Who the fuck cares if it's "fine" with you? Your feelings are totally irrelevant. In fact, that might be your problem. If you were more rational and less emotional, then I'm sure you wouldn't belive that having your feelings hurt is a just cause for war.

As for France 'fucking' you with the "UN Mandate", the Gulf War was ended via a cease-fire. The terms were offered in a UN Security Council Resolution, to which Iraq mostly adhered (including the key issues of staying out of Kuwait and not producing WMD's). It was not France's obligation to uphold the resolution, it was Hussein's--and he did (except denying some UN inspections, which was not Bush's rational for starting the war). Being a cease-fire and not a "surrender", the Member States were equally obligated to the conditions of the resolution.

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Originally Posted by 1BiGG1 If Germany or Japan fucked US after WWII they would have been paid a visit just like Saddam was. "Dishonesty/false information" my ass! And "integrity" = yawn, please don’t pretend we did anything wrong buy making a pathetic despot abide by his surrender agreements, its not like he wasn’t given plenty of warning before he ended up swinging from a rope recently.

According to you, these are just causes for starting a war:

• Laughing at dead soldiers
• 'Fucking' you
• Breaking some terms of an imaginary surrender agreement
• Cheating on a food-for-oil agreement

Do any of the reasons listed above justify the cost of American and Iraqi lives, let alone the fiscal cost of this war? Imposing your morality on other countries is wrong. You may think that you didn't do "anything wrong", but I'm sure the Iraqis would disagree (not that you care what they think).

Peace-keeping, not policing!

Wow! What are you even talking about this subject for when you don’t have the slightest clue?

Tell ya what; you come back after researching Saddam’s surrender agreement (Pssssst I have a clue for you, there’s nothing allegedly imaginary about it LOL!) and the oil-for-food scam (Psssssst and a bonus clue = like this isn’t well documented!). When you achieve a basic education on these two items I will be happy to help you correct the rest of your misinformation.

I believe Cory Glass should be returned to the U.S. as soon as possible to face charges and imprisonment for a specified term. When he joined the National Guard he knew there was a definite possibility that he could be sent overseas to another country to perform in a combat situation. No one signs a contract placing their life in the hands of the government without knowing what is contained in that contract. He knew the risk, he accepted the risk and rolled the dice. He thought we would roll into Iraq and kick their asses like in the gulf war and....surprise!!, it didn't work out that way.
Cory Glass thought he'd sign up and get all the perks that come with serving in the National Guard; educational, medical, job training, etc. and sit back home with no worries of putting his ass on the line.
If he doesn't want to serve in the Guard, then he should serve time in prison.
All the deserters should be sent back here to deal adultly with their terms of imprisonment, and then be allowed to re-enter society as productive citizens.

How can you suggest that Glass deal with this legally while the Bush Admin wages this illegal war?

You have made valid points; you are swaying me with reasoning, unlike 1BiGG1. Nonetheless, Glass was young and stupid, and he shouldn't have to pay for this with his life (by being sent to war) or his future (by being sent to prison)... IMHO.

I'm a liberal, but not a bleeding heart. I understand the necessity of discretion and commitment that soldiers need during a war. Unfortunately, this war changes all the rules.


Psssst! You are obviously an immature fool. I am done with you until you grow up, or at least present one fact.

Technically, it is not an illegal war. At the time, the people of America, were fully behind the military action. It had the full support of the American congress and the people of the nation. We wanted payback for 9/11. So, stupidly, we allowed a dishonest president to use that feeling of vengeance and highly inaccurate information, to lead us, like a bellwether, down the path to the situation we find ourselves currently en mired.
It is abundantly clear now that this war was based on Bush's ego and personal revenge against Saddam Hussein. At the same time, it created an ideal situation for Bush and his cronies to discreetly make oodles of money for themselves, and use the war as a buffer to circumvent the system, the Constitution, and to keep a smoke and mirrors approach with regards to the American people scrutinizing his total ineptitude as a national leader.
Only now, that this country is in shambles; economically, politically, infra structurally, and our reputation damaged beyond repair in the world forum, are we beginning to realize the damage that Bush's leadership has done us.
Infrastructure nationally, has been ignored at the price of human lives, trillions of dollars, and indeed, our future as a nation, due to his outrageous "war efforts". Meanwhile, his cronies are raking in the BIG bucks and will soon drift into the shadows to be quickly forgotten by the renowned American short memory / attention span. We will be too busy trying to repair the damage this imbecile has done to hold anyone accountable.
But, back to the matter at hand. Cory Glass was not young and naive when he signed that contract. He did so willingly, and now is trying to claim he had no idea what service would entail due to his signing that contract.
He asserts that he joined the National Guard to help people in times of need.
Well, perhaps, while he is serving his time in prison we can arrange for him to do just that. He could perform public service such as; fighting wildfires, cleaning up devastated areas having suffered natural disasters, help replant forests, help mop up oil spills, rebuild New Orleans,etc. and after his days work is done report to the local jail where he assigned to sleep in a cell.
A specialized work release program could be set up for all the dissenters / deserters. They must live up to their end of the bargain, a bargain they contracted for. Perhaps after their service is completed, they would not have a criminal record.
I do not blame the Canadian government at all, but this is strictly an American issue; they do not have the right to offer these people a safe haven or refuge from prosecution. These people were not drafted into an unjust war, they signed up for it. I'm sure all of them believed they would never be required to leave the safety of their home states, and yet they would certainly reap the benefits and perks of National Guard service.
As an American, I am grateful that we have Canada as our northern neighbor, however, I am ashamed American citizens have chosen to put our two nations at odds with regards to their lack of ethics and their cowardice.

I bid you peace.

I did post facts; many of them including the one asking why you are talking about a subject you obviously know nothing about!

I expected you would come back with nothing and/or some cockamamie absurdity of why you refuse too educate yourself with reality but hey, you have every right to spread all the lies and information you want so feel free to continue since its quite apparent that is the only thing you are interested in doing on this subject anyway.

Shakes head. Yes he should be prosecuted, under article 85 of the UCMJ if I remember correctly. There is now room for opinion or discussion on this. His ass should be put in jail.

If you raise you hand and take that oath, your ass belongs to the Military. There is no draft. If you joined to suck off the tit that is the GI Bill and then don't want to fulfill your obligations once called upon you're a coward and should be put in jail. Frankly I don't think jail is harsh enough but if I say anything further I expect the flames to be worse than they are.

Couple of things.

Not being able to handle anymore, is a lot different than running away before you are even deployed. Again, I do not care what your economic background is, you took an oath, there is no draft do your job.

If someone wants out then I have one stipulation. You must pay back every dollar you earned while in the Military up to that point. To INCLUDE, salary, housing assistance, healthcare, GI Bill dollars you used, the 10s of thousands of dollars it cost ot train you. Your future earnings will be garnished until this is paid in full. If you make no attempt at restitution after say 1-2 years, you are placed back into a military prision, no exceptions.

To me that's more than fair.

From what I understand, the guy had already been deployed at least one time. He stated his issue was redeployment.

I'll agree he should return a prorated amount of his bonus or any other benefit, however, I do believe he should be able to leave at will. I really believe that should be in the contract. An unmotivated soldier is, to my mind, a danger. About the training, many were released early or never complete basic, due to various reasons, and the military absorbed the cost. I mean, the Air Force was notorious for releasing people after two years until the war. So, I disagree he should be responsible for training costs. It didn't work out for this soldier, cut loses and move on. There's better people out there, imo.

I was speaking in general about people that have not even been deployed and the issue as a whole, not just the individual.

You cannot have an open door policy that allows you to leave when you want to, everyone would leave, nobody "likes" combat. If someone did I wouldn't want to stand next to them.

People have been released, most of the time it's a decision made by the Military not the individual, if they decide to release you then yes, you don't have to pay anything back. It's a one way contract, you are giving service for X amount of years, the contract isn't two way.

Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. I'm pretty sure that's the point they were trying to make... that the way the system is set up is dirty. It should be as easy to get out as it is to get in (and like any other employer, increasingly difficult to get back in after you leave so that we don't get people flaking in and out) As for the GI Bill, just tack on a disclaimer that it's only available upon completing a specified continuous time in service.

Well the GI Bill already does to an extent. But you can complete your initial service and then get called back when on the IRR (inactive ready reserve). You are still under contract and have to serve if called back for any reason. If you refuse you may have already used GI Bill dollars.

The only reason I disagree with making it easy to get out is that the Military isn't like every other employer. The reason they keep you is to make sure there is an experienced Military. As well as having the ability to know what your headcount is so you can in fact plan etc.

I have a hard time with anyone that signs up knowing you are enlisting into a career that is combat oriented and then want to bail at the drop of a hat.