Informal Democrat Poll

StapledShut

Some people simply don't like him. I don't know why, exactly, because frankly I think he's the best candidate remaining, by far. But suffice it to say that they have their reasons, even if the most adamant of the anti-Obamas in this thread have had an unfounded basis for it.
Still, it's just like how you and I support Obama but not Clinton. We have our reasons; they find them to be bullshit. The anti-Obama pro-Clintons have their reasons; we find them to be bullshit. But what sets people like HazelGod and myself apart from your cut of the ilk, is that we understand that they've justified their reasoning amongst themselves, far beyond issues of race.

It’s akin to chewing on a rain soaked car tire.

VeeP

Sorry if you're a bit thin-skinned there, buddy, but political threads in the Etc. Etc. forum are notorious for being a den of jackals engaging in contact sport. You really need to check your facts before regurgitating what you're being fed by the "sky-is-falling", "we'll-say-anything-to-get-a-Democrat" elected media outlets (hint: MSNBC has become Obama election headquarters). Better bring your A-game to these threads, otherwise you're gonna get your ass handed to you. I've been beaten about the head many a time myself, so either suck it up or feel free to go three forums up and count to 25,000 while you bemoan the state of your affairs and how the country is so "unfair" to you.

To answer your other charges: You're right, I am financially stable, but also far cry from "wealthy". I've worked hard for every penny I've earned and acted responsibly with it thereafter, thank you very much. As a business owner and middle-income taxpayer I already give hefty share of it to the government. And they're now going to decide who benefits from the fruits of my labor more than ever before? Huh uh. I never said things are going "great" right now, but those who lay all current problems at one guy's feet are naive at best. We've had a do-nothing Congress that for decades has kicked the can down the road on every major issue until they've become unmanageable. Until I hear Mr. Obama say he's in favor of term-limits for his Congressional brethren, I shall chalk up his "changing Washington" aspirations as nothing but feel-good rhetoric. It's all the guy has to run on, though, as he has no demonstrable record of bringing the D.C. fat cats together, unlike McCain. You can't be the #1 most liberal member of the Senate and then pass yourself off as a "great uniter" once you hit the campaign trail. The non-Kool-Aid drinkers among us are smarter than that.

HazelGod

In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about Hope.

VeeP

Haha... well I'm certainly no Billary proponent, but may I also point out that much of Obama's campaign is predicated on the need to snatch ourselves from the precipice of extinction. And obviously someone (the media, no doubt) has convinced sheeple like unabear09 that inflation is out of control and that we're on the brink of another Great Depression. Every day is a new adventure in what "crisis" they can attribute directly Bush (and ultimately McCain) next, and we sure as hell don't hear either Democratic candidate jumping to correct them.

VinylBoy

It's pretty apparent that this thread is about to go down the toilet as well.

Hillary similar as Geowge W. Bush? Please STFU. Do a side by side comparison on EVERYTHING they stand for in regards to the issues and you'll see otherwise. Here's a detailed example:

Clinton supports a Woman's Right to choose. Bush does not.
Clinton favors the hiring of more women & minorities. Bush doesn't.
Clinton favors same-sex domestic partnership. Bush does not.
Clinton favors more federal funding for health coverage. Bush doesn't.
Bush favors teacher led prayers in school. Clinton does not.
Bush favors the three strike licensing laws. Clinton doesn't.
Bush favors the absolute right for gun ownership. Clinton does not.
Bush favors the privitization of Social Security. Clinton doesn't.

One of the only issues where they share a similar stance is on the Death Penalty. Of course, Bush favors it more.

... I could go on and on. But to save space and my time since a lot of the Anti-Hillary otaku will ignore it anyway I'll stop. But the picture is damn clear. Anti-Hillary fans can sit here and think of all of the 4-letter descriptive adjectives they want to describe her and anyone who does support her. The real facts are spelled out for everyone to see. Fuck the bullshit... seriously!!

jack99821

I haven't read all of this thread, but I thought I'd make one point here.
You say you'd feel safer in the hands of a McCain administration, and one of the reasons you wouldn't vote for Obama is the "homophobic, racist" comments made occasionally in his church.

McCain has been endorsed by (and embraced) John Hagee who believes hurricane Katrina was divine retribution because New Orleans was about to hold a gay pride parade.

I can overlook Rev. Wright because most Christian leaders in the US give bigoted sermons. I've never seen one who hasn't. Hagee is an extreme example, but sexism and xenophobia run rampant in American religion.

Here's some cut-and-paste from Wikipedia.
Claims that Islamic Qur'an contains a "mandate to kill Christians and Jews"

On the September 18, 2006, edition of National Public Radio's Fresh Air, Hagee discussed Islam, stating, "those who live by the Qur'an have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews... it teaches that very clearly." He then proceeded to characterize the military threat posed by those who follow Islamic scripture: "There are 1.3 billion people who follow the Islamic faith, so if you're saying there's only 15 percent that want to come to America or invade Israel to crush it, you're only talking about 200 million people. That's far more than Hitler and Japan and Italy and all of the axis powers in World War II had under arms." [40]

Comments on Hurricane Katrina

During the same September 18, 2006, edition of National Public Radio's Fresh Air, Hagee said Hurricane Katrina was an act of God, punishing New Orleans for "a level of sin that was offensive to God." He referred to a "homosexual parade" held on the date the hurricane struck and this was proof "of the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans." [41], even though the Southern Decadence parade was scheduled for the following week and the primary gay neighborhoods, the French Quarter and the Marigny, were spared the flooding and destruction. Another reason for God's wrath, Hagee claims, was the Bush administration's pressure on Israel to abandon settlements and the associated land.

I prefer Wright (as deluded and bigoted as he is) to Hagee (who is apparently endorsing homicide on God's part) any day.

Who is John Galt?

unabear09

Ok.... now you are starting to piss me off . I resent being refered to as a Sheeple. I have a mind of my own, and I don't write responses without doing a good deal of research on my own. I also take into account what is said on the news, and do my own digging to find out if what is being said is vaild or not. If all you can do is insult people to get a point across....well you need some help man. Do you see anyone else on this thread insulting anyone else besides you. If you can't carry on an intellectual conversation about politics without resorting to name calling and insults....welll YOU NEED TO TAKE YOUR ASS ON OUT OF HERE! And, had you actually read what I said about W., you would have seen that I don't blame him for everything. Blaming the man for much of anything is giving the man ENTIRELY TOO MUCH CREDIT! Dick Cheney and Carl Rove are the "masterminds" of the hell hole that we are in right now.


Oh and what is/has been stated about McCain....well maybe it is you who needs to check their facts before opening your mouth. McCain has said numerous times that he has intentions of the US staying in the Middle East for decades, if not centuries in the future. He has also said that he would be more than willing to invade Iran and Syria because they pose a threat to the US and US interests. How bout we leave these crazy fucking people alone. Saddam Hussein was a sick, twisted, monster of a ruler, but by george, when he was in control, you didn't see these stupid ass people strapping bombs to themselves, women, children, and the handicapped, and blowing up markets, or funerals, or weddings. There was no such thing as Al Queda in Iraq. Iraq is a disaster, and always will be. Now back to McCain. I have great respect for the man and for his service to our country. In the 2000 presidental race, had he of won the Republican nomination, I would have voted for him. However, since 2004 or so, he has aligned himself with the Bush administration, and switched sides over so many issues, he no longer can be trusted.


I am tired of people coming in on threads such as this and, because they are loosing an argument, or they can't get their points across, they turn into children, and start name calling and throwing temper tantrums. If you don't like what is being said, then politely disagree, make your feelings be known, and carry on. Please stop trying make things into the next epic battle of our time. Please have enough respect for others opinions, and I'm sure that you will get the same respect.

sargon20

One thing the Republicans do FAR better than the Democrats is STICK TOGETHER. They understand very well their candidate may not be perfect but they HATE Democrats and liberals far more than the idea of not voting for the less than perfect Republican.

Policy wise Hillary/Obama are at polar ends to McCain. So if it's Hillary or nothing then one must ask is it about the issues/policies at all? Or is it about celebrity; the shallowest of reasons to vote for someone.

funnyguy

ballsaplenty2156

I stand and applaud boynextdoorkpt ! I cannot fathom what Barack Obama's qualifications for a presidential position are. He is a very likable man, obviously educated; but what are his plans for this country's future? He keeps crying " Change", but what is he planning to change, and how?
If anyone dares question this, we are branded as racists. Look, I feel it is certainly time for a man of color, or a woman to take the rains of this country.
However, we need the next president to be the best person for the job he/she can possibly be. I don't care what color/sex that person might be, as long as they're the best prepared to guide this country thru the next 4 years.
If Colin Powell or Charles Rangel were running for the office, I'd have no problem giving my vote to their presidential run. These are men of color who have proven themselves in a national and a world arena. Barack Obama? He's not ready for the responsibility. Maybe in a few years, after some seasoning, he will be a prime candidate, but for now, I'm torn between Hilary and John McCain.
I am not a racist, but I am a realist. Just as I would not discount a man for the presidential seat based on the color of his skin, I WILL NOT vote for him based on the color of his skin because it might be fashionable.
Obama has done nothing special to merit being our next president. He does not have the necessary savvy to bring us through this awful economic position we're in. I do not question his intelligence or his ambition, but it is not his time and I think to vote for a man because he would be our first black president, despite his lack of credentials would indeed be a foolhardy move on the part of our society.
Once again, I applaud boynextdoorkpt for having the courage to raise the question.

ballsaplenty2156

sorry, I misspelled "reins" in my posting.

VeeP

Look pal, suggesting you need to pull your head out and "sheeple" is but child's play for this place... I've witnessed infinitely worse "insults" being hurled on this board. At least be man enough to admit you were way off base with regard to the "inflation is outrageously high" remark and the Great Depression comparison... no mention of that in the ensuing discussion since your "woe is me" diatribe. You've allowed yourself to imbibe on someone's Kool-Aid, and I called you on it, plain and simple. Just as Obama reels you in with flowery, feel-good rhetoric, so does the media with their wanton hysteria. Without question some outlets have made it their mission to ensure the Dems "win back" the White House in November.

Yeah, Congress is in no way at fault for our woes. OK.

I've said nothing about McCain in this thread except that he, unlike Obama, has an established record of reaching across party lines to get some shit done. That is fact.

Which is not to say he isn't a man of his own thinking and convictions and wouldn't do things differently than Bush. If you want a bunch of hand-outs and your life controlled by the government, cool... vote for Obama. Fine by me.

Oh, man up and drop the hyperbole already. The only one who is losing (one 'o') an argument and/or throwing a tantrum is you because I refused to accept and debunked two cockamamie "facts" you chose to put forth. Run along now so you can be next to post on Count Up to 25,000.

HazelGod

OMFG, please...STOP...can't...breathe...

In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about Hope.

unabear09

Hey man. I'm plenty man enough to admit that I misspoke. I was wrong when i said inflation was outrageously high. However, if you would be so kind as to look here Historical Inflation data from 1914 t the present and look and see that inflation rates are higher now than they have been in nearly 20 years. And yes, Congress has some blame in this whole middle east bullshit we're in now. They didn't have the balls to call out the Bush administrations bullshit about weapons of mass destruction, Iraq being involved in 9/11 and so on. The Congress was duped into believing that Iraq was a huge threat to our national and international security, and due to immense fear (that the Bush administration was spewing out to us all around the clock, along with the so called "liberal" media) they acted haistaly and gave the president all but total authority. So yeah I'm man enough to speak up and say that I incorrectly spoke on some issues.

stacy1185

in my opinion, as long as a republican isn't in office, i'm voting for the opposing candidate. go democrats!!!

I need to be myself.
I can't be no one else.