Who does Canada think it is?

Nor are they bound by the laws of Canada.. they are actually citizens of both countries.. correct?

An interesting exchange:
Then eloquent old phe, who has never mastered the quote function, replied:
Thanks, I have a great saying for you. "read the post" Then read what i was responding to. If you think its acceptable for Pierre to enter into a public forum and comment about a country that is not his own and its people well... theres no helping you.


Well, let's read the post.Just the first 'graph:Hardly raising the tone there, phe.

Then canuck posted this:

To which the ever eloquent phe replied:
With regard to "values" I dont share those of Canada after all your a nation that routinely slaughters harp seals, ruined the Dionne Quints and vacations with Castro to get a cheap all inclusive fort night holiday. Dont thrust your values at me pal.

Slaughters harp seals? Why are harp seals different from any other animals? Puhleez, phe ... you can do better than that.
Ruined the Dionne Quints? Perhaps some truth in that, but what do we have to equal the slaughter of the American Indians, the bombing of Cambodia, the Iraq War.
Vacations with Castro? Look, if you want to put a helpless people under blockade and do enormous damage to the quality of life of millions of Cubans over several decades, no one has been able to stop you. But the Cuban question is far more complicated than certain Americans can allow themselves to see. And if your whole point is opposition to Communism, your policy no doubt solidified Castro's hold on Cuba.
Please, a little perspective. You should try it ... you might like it.

Then canuck wrote:
The ever ready phe has another stirling rejoinder:
On the above. You dont know what your talking about. I did however share that many communities in FL are strapped with healthcare bills when services are rendered to Canadian Patients who are on holiday and in need of health services. Unfortunately their health insurance provider does not pay within a reasonable time period. Case in point is a teenage boy from Guelph Ontario who received a heart-lung transplant at Shands Med Center/University of Florida and the hospital waited for two years for payment only to receive a portion of the total bill.
Dont critize my health care system.. its not yours to criticize.

There are probably delays at times, sure. Such is the nature of bureaucracy.
But a heart-lung transplant won't be a typical case at all.
It's astonishing that you think no one should have anything to say about your health care system.
I mean, what principle are you appealing to? Do you think no American should ever comment on another country's human rights record? Is the civil war in the Congo beyond foreign comment? Where does this idea come from?
Of course, the faults of your health care system can be mentioned, and of course, they are nowhere on a level with the horrors of a foreign civil war.
But many of your own politicians claim that the lack of a national health care system in the United States is a national disgrace.
You've heard them say that, phe. And many Americans agree.

All this said, I respect the United States and its people.
I could live in the United States with great pleasure.
Not the least of American charm is the national tradition of civility.
C-i-v-i-l-i-t-y, phe.
Try it. You might like it.

Perhaps. I find many polls say what whomever funds them wants them to say. The death penalty though is waning. Some states which reinstated the death penalty have have rescinded it and others have done so de facto.

I don't think so. There are constant shifts in power from the federal government to the states and back again, but basically no state can pass a law which contravenes US Code or the Constitution of the United States, cannot make treaties with foreign governments, and cannot regulate interstate commerce. Other than that, states can do what they want. Now obviously some states have done just these things and, when they do, the federal government has to step in and go to court to try and force the state to do what they want. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That pesky constitution enumerates very specifically what the federal government can and cannot do with some very broad powers reserved specifically to the states. Congresses and presidents have tried since the beginning of the republic to overstep their bounds, as have states, but the federal government is actually pretty limited in what it can and cannot do.

I wouldn't know though perhaps you do? Do the provinces have any particular powers above and beyond the ones I mentioned?


Now I could be really cagey and say I really meant Puerto Rico and the Northern Marianas which the two political entities which the federal government does consider commonwealths of separate status from states. The peoples are citizens but have no federal voting power though they do send non-voting representatives to congress. They also don't pay some taxes.

But that isn't what I meant. Commonwealth is what these four states call themselves and it does, to some small degree, influence the political orientation of the constitutions and laws of these states to what one might call a slightly socialist lean in theory if not in practice. It's the sort of thing lawyers and windy politicians might invoke when they talk about, "the spirit of the law."

Yes, though we generally call it the National Guard. These forces are at the disposal of the governors of their respective states and used in times of disaster or extreme civil unrest. They're a holdover from the days when communication and travel was such that the country could be invaded and half conquered before anybody in Philadelphia (or New York or Washington) found out. The president can federalize national guard units at his discretion. National guard units may be deployed for combat duty abroad but they can also be used to enforce federal law. Eisenhower did this in Arkansas when the governor refused to desegregate the schools following a Supreme Court decision and used the state police to bar black students from entering white schools.

Some of the states that had organized governments before the revolution use the term commonwealth, it is simply the English language equivalent of the Latin word republic, which later became more usual. They are states no different than any other state.

The term has a different meaning in the case of Puerto Rico, it means an internally self governing associated territory.

Great read! Scroll up to Canada's policy and let me know the difference.. its so frustrating to be held to a different standard

phe:
If Americans are unwilling to accept criticism from other countries, you will be severely handicapped in improving the nation. Besides which, American health care will be criticized, whether or not you choose to cover your ears. It's probably best to listen for some good ideas.

Massive:
Well, no. Once the accused is on Canadian soil, Canada has a responsibility to ensure he will receive what we consider a proper judicial process in his home country. We do not consider the death penalty to fit the criteria.

It may help you to consider the case of refugees. For example, suppose a Chinese citizen posted information about Chinese Communist Party corruption, and then fled to New York. He committed a crime in China, what is known there as "revealing state secrets". Does the US have a duty to send him back to China for his execution?

What about an Iranian woman who has pre-marital sex and escapes to America before the authorities can detain her? Should she be deported back to Iran for her 50 lashes?

What if the country of origin practices "cruel and unusual punishment" - barred by the American constitution? Would you send a Saudi thief back to have his hand cut off?

The point is, when the country of origin imposes inhumane punishment, the country holding the prisoner has a moral and legal obligation to prevent said punishment.

Phe, this post was much better than any of your earlier ones. This is how you should sound on this board.
Now, the post is interesting, but it assumes that I don't already know a good deal of that.
Actually, my remark to Jason, which you quoted, was only an ironic reference to the fact that, judging one can only assume on the fact that no Canadians had mentioned the points he brought up, that no Canadians were aware of those points.
But this was equally plausibly said about the Americans who had posted, since Jason was the first in a long line of American posters on the thread to say anything about the differeing positions on the death penalty that exist from state to state.
That's all I meant, really.

Phe, this is true everywhere of everyone.
You probably would be amazed if you could really learn how little your own countrymen know about the U.S.
I am amazed at how little Canadians really know about Canada.
And most people know very little about other countries, though they may tend to know a little more about the most prominent and news-featured countries, of which the most visible and exposed is the USA.
Canada a scary place? Well, I think a lot of people would express a different view ... and, without wishing to give offence, I want to add that I'm pretty sure far more people find the United States scary, whether for good reason or bad, than find Canada scary.
If anything, Canada is considered bland and a bit boring.
It will not risk the relationship at all, because the American people 1) won't know that much about Canadian antagonism 2) Canada remains the best friend the U.S. has, and 3) the American people are large-hearted.
It's an extreme case, phe, that doesn't tell us much about relations between our two fine countries.

And phe, seriously: You really have to learn to use the quote function.

They're technically citizens of the United States with all the rights of citizens including running for president, voting, and carrying US passports though have only had this status since 1924.

I don't know if they're citizens of Canada as well when the territories overlap.

There hardly is one.

I think this whole this is much like a family argument.

It's one thing for cousin Phil to complain about cousin Rubi and the entire clan to complain about Uncle Kali, but entirely another for someone outside the family to say exactly the same thing. No matter how valid the argument may be, it immediately causes everyone to close ranks and take the defensive.

I can, and have, debated long and loudly about how shitty our health care system is, the injustice of capital punishment, the general American naivete regarding other cultures and countries, and the vast odiousness of our elected officials.

Canadians, and in fairness nobody else, can say anything save that it is couched in the friendliest, most helpful, and diplomatic terms possible. This is why ambassadors and whole schools of diplomacy exist.

Of course, the National Guard. Now, that I know about; just didn't think of it, for some reason, when you mentioned military forces.
I'll have to respond to the rest of your post at another time.
I do believe the U.S. is a much more centralized federation than Canada, which is one of the looser ones around.
And provinces do have larger areas of jurisdiction.
But as to the details, I have to inform myself, not least because the exact disposition of powers in your country is hazy to me.

There is no dual citizenship. The area of the Arctic Ocean border between Alaska and Canada is uninhabited, in any case. There is just one village, Kaktovik, between Prudhoe and the border.

No-one in Alaska could vote in a federal election until 1959, when it became a state. Alaska natives were generally prevented from voting at all before the fifties.

They do have some rights other citizen don't have, such as subsistence hunting of marine mammals, and free medical care.

This was my impression. Tnx., Kal.

Phe, this post was much better than any of your earlier ones. This is how you should sound on this board.
Now, the post is interesting, but it assumes that I don't already know a good deal of that.
Actually, my remark to Jason, which you quoted, was only an ironic reference to the fact that, judging one can only assume on the fact that no Canadians had mentioned the points he brought up, that no Canadians were aware of those points.
But this was equally plausibly said about the Americans who had posted, since Jason was the first in a long line of American posters on the thread to say anything about the differeing positions on the death penalty that exist from state to state.
That's all I meant, really

Interesting point. I am guilty of responding to only a few in the thread, my apologies

Phe, this is true everywhere of everyone.
You probably would be amazed if you could really learn how little your own countrymen know about the U.S.
I am amazed at how little Canadians really know about Canada.
And most people know very little about other countries, though they may tend to know a little more about the most prominent and news-featured countries, of which the most visible and exposed is the USA.
Canada a scary place? Well, I think a lot of people would express a different view ... and, without wishing to give offence, I want to add that I'm pretty sure far more people find the United States scary, whether for good reason or bad, than find Canada scary.
If anything, Canada is considered bland and a bit boring.

I pity those who find the U.S. to be scary. Because they have little understanding of the county or its culture. Im not offended at all by your observation. Ive never found Canada to be either bland or boring.

It will not risk the relationship at all, because the American people 1) won't know that much about Canadian antagonism 2) Canada remains the best friend the U.S. has, and 3) the American people are large-hearted.

Thats very kind of you. I would however question whether Canada is the best friend of the United States. Sadly if that question was directed to many Americans in a non-confrontaional manner I think you would be surprised at how many would agree me. The American people are large hearted but very tired of the cheap shots directed toward them from the rest of the world.

And phe, seriously: You really have to learn to use the quote function.

Im working on it... I promise.

Ha ha.
Yes.
Exactly, Jason.