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Originally Posted by phe1249  Again I will say I brought up N.I. because the topic of human rights in the U.S. were introduced into the forum. In resonse to your statement... Read the thread and you will see that Jason made the clear allogation that our human rights were not up to speed... |
I don't get it - if you want to debate this in a human rights context with Jason, do it with him, don't use me as a proxy.
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Originally Posted by phe1249 Ive heard from you how N.Eire is not an issue. Gerry Adams sees it differently. You should really hear him speak. Moyers did a piece last year on children there and all the Catholic kids said Potestants were "better than they were" ... |
I didn't say it wasn't
an issue. Please cite where I did.
N.I. isn't
the issue, or wasn't until you raised it in such an incorrect context. To restate;
you brought up N.I. as a possible Quid Pro Quo in terms of a US repeal of Capital punishment. Presumably because you believe the N.I. is primarily a Human Rights issue? That's fine, you're entitled to that view, what you're not entitled to is to have it go unchallenged. Again, I'm not 'debating' what Jason wrote, I'm debating what
you wrote:
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Originally Posted by phe1249 ...Others around the world see N Ireland as a huge humanrights problem. |
I'm sure it's occurred to you that Gerry Adams may
also have an agenda? That he may say whatever he thinks his current audience wishes to hear. Again, with respect, I'd suggest you acquaint yourself more fully with the
entire history before citing pop culture references as evidence of such understanding. US interest in N.I. is fine, but its understanding too often appears a mile wide and an inch deep.
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Originally Posted by dong20 The former empire has plenty of Black eyes, all empires do of course. Quote:
Originally Posted by phe1249 Really? | |
Yes,
really. It's somewhat in the nature of imperialism.
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Originally Posted by phe1249 Dont you find it odd that this is the only colony that became independant from the crown only to declare socialism? |
Not at all, but then of course it
wasn't the only one.
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Originally Posted by phe1249 Again I brought up Burma because I found it ironic that such passionate discussion over U.S. capital punishment was being debated with no comment on this tradegty. Yet Iraq was introduced by non- americans with great ease. When everyone evaluates the role of the U.S. with such ease I only want to join in and share my evaluation of the role other nations have played in the world. Simple England dropped the ball on Burma, so hasty to kick out Churhill they lost their focus |
Well, for the record Iraq wasn't mentioned by
all non Americans. Your failure to find the thread about the cyclone is your problem, not mine so please stop trying to make it so, it's tiresome.
Britain dropped a great many balls, Phe. Burma was just one of them. Regardless, your attempt to assign retrospective blame
60 years after the event is, IMO misguided.
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Originally Posted by dong20 The UK did not cause the cyclone Quote:
Originally Posted by phe1249 Never said they did. | |
It wasn't meant to be read as such as I'm sure you well knew, using it in such an out of context manner is disingenuous.
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Originally Posted by dong20 Blaming the Junta's response on colonial legacy is somewhat akin to suggesting that the US Government's failure to respond effectively to Katrina was also a result of former colonial mismanagement? Quote:
Originally Posted by phe1249 Poor comparisson. What was the death toll in Katrina? What will it be in Burma? Are those in Burma meeting the aid workers with guns? | |
Who mentioned numbers? Other than you.
It should be quite obvious I was making an analogy about former colonial powers bearing responsibility for former colonies' inability to deal adequately and promptly with natural disasters. That
was your accusation, yes. I'm not sure what the reference to guns is?
I
agree it's a poor
comparison, one made to illustrate my belief in the fundamental weakness of your argument. Too subtle?
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Originally Posted by phe1249 If your going to get all Nevila Chamberlin on me get your facts right. |
Which
facts? You need to be rather more precise here. Interesting allusion the Neville, though.
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Originally Posted by dong20 Did Britain have a duty of care in post colonial years, of course. Did it discharge that duty as fully as it could have - no. Does that make it responsible for an independent nations ineffective response to a natural disaster occurring 60 years after their independence, I don't think so. Quote:
Originally Posted by phe1249 I disagree. If the citizens of Puerto Rico vote for independance tomorrow, we, the U.S. owe an alligence to them forever . They are are territory, we didnt conquer them like England did their colonies. My personal opinon. | |
Well, actually Puerto Rico
was the subject of a US invasion. Read up on Guánica and the Treaty of Paris in which it was ceded to the US as a
conquered colony. Sure, others did most of the wet work, the US merely reaped the reward. An interesting nugget to omit from an essentially moralistic argument, don't you think?
Besides, allegiance and responsibility are different concepts. Curious you bring up Puerto Rico, a territory whose citizens may be called upon to die in the service of a nation in which they have virtually no voice, a President for whom they cannot vote and have limited constitutional protection. I'd suggest you pick a better analogy next time. But, since you did:
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Originally Posted by phe1249 ...If there is nothing to lose simply hold an election. |
Then let the US give Puerto Rico such a vote. There's nothing to lose, right?
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Originally Posted by phe1249 ...I am really trying not to veer way off the topic of Capital Punishment. But on this topic dont you find it odd that Burma was left to be occupied while other british intersest in the area were protected? |
I wasn't there of course, but it occurs to me that strategic military priorities may have been a factor? If you want to second guess events of almost 70 years ago feel free but IMO it's an exercise in futility. Especially so if one expects it will have any real impact on contemporary regional politics.
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Originally Posted by phe1249 ... Im very well read and have studied here and Scotland. I would ask in the spirit of fair debate do not tell me what to read. English treat Catholics like shit, period. |
For someone who stated they were trying to stay on topic, introducing religious oppression in the UK is something of a curve ball. Not to mention somewhat ill informed. No matter, I'll add it to the list. I didn't tell you
what to read, merely that you should do so. Based on the latest gem, now more than ever.
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Originally Posted by phe1249 ...Read up and you will see Capital Punishment in this forum quickly turned into U.S. involvment in Iraq (colony) was the word used. |
I've read the thread, so what if discussion turned to Iraq?
I'm discussing the issues
you raised. The reference to Iraq as a colony was of course fatuous, your using it in this context equally so.
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Originally Posted by phe1249 Arrogant and British |
Sticks and stones.
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Originally Posted by phe1249 I saw it this evening in the new post section for the first time. I responded. Perhaps had Burma been used instead people would have seen the post, I see your post is from 5 days ago so I apologize and stand corrected..Good on you.
...
As one who survived Hurricane Andrew and has done humanitairn work in that region in the past Im considering crossing in from Chaing Rai. |
Perhaps if you had searched for cyclone and/or Myanmar (the official name?) you
may have found it. Also, people
did respond.
On the aid thing; I just hope you don't have to wait
too long for a Visa - or are you also blaming the UK for Myanmar's bureaucratic obstinacy?
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Originally Posted by phe1249 Your funny. Have you looked into flights to S.E. Asia? |
Such presumptions. I'm not qualified in such things, and having a bunch of amateur do gooders run around with band aids and good intentions will of course
so help the situation.
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Originally Posted by phe1249 Or are you just another arrogant Brit who dictates what whe rest of the world should be doing? LMAO. Someone said the English were meant to rule the world... you fools actually belived it! The sun has "set" on the empire.. its over. |
Well, that sun set
long before I was born, so I don't really agree from a personal perspective, but please, do indicate where
I have suggested that of which you all but accuse me. It's useful when making accusations to offer evidence, don't you agree?
My stated opinion on Capital punishment was just that, my
opinion. From your increasingly insulting and accusatory stance some
desperation?
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Originally Posted by phe1249 I am glad someone finally introduced this topic. It is perhaps the worst disaster of my lifetime. Good on you for bringing it up. I would be willing to talk to anyone who wanted to go volenteer. I have tickets as far as Thailand. These people are the kindest Ive ever encountered and dont deserve this. |
Really? Perhaps you should reconsider. Here's a clue; it wasn't not so far away from current events. Also,
no nation would deserve this.
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Originally Posted by phe1249 I took a much softer tone in our debate last night, you chose not to extend me the same courtesy. |
You're making me laugh, really you are.
I
could say that the arrogance in a national 'right' to decide the path the world should take is perhaps more firmly rooted elsewhere, but I won't.
As for 'tone' ...
please. I've not insulted you personally or by national association once, yet I count at least three such oblique instances in your responses to me. Curious, isn't it?
