To Marleyislegend

Originally Posted by senor rubirosa

Thought so.
And who can refute them?
No one, pops.

Originally Posted by jason_els

"POPS???????????":conf used:

Originally Posted by VinylBoy

You're looking at so many issues that have a lot more to do than just color. Stop drinking that racial Kool-Aid and look at it from a different angle.

First off, let's look at the women. Women have always had to struggle to be treated equally in the workplace. A lot of them feel as if they don't get the same wages, benefits or treatment than a man who get the same positions. Things like this drive women to be more competitive, which explains in the simplest of terms why more women are gearing themselves to go to college. Remember this paragraph, I will get back to it in a sec.

Now, let's look at the school systems in poor, urban areas. Many of these schools do not have sufficient tools to provide an accurate education. If both black men and women were failing or not succeeding at an equal rate, you are on solid ground. However, they are not. The women do well in spite of the handicap. Why?I know this first hand for I was a student that was part of the Bussing Era. Where I was growing up, public school systems in big cities were not good compared to those in more suburban areas. However they still work reasonably well for women! My parents put me in a program that allowed me to go to these other schools and get a better education. I bussed to school, anywhere up to 2 hours both ways, from 1st to 12th Grade. I had to wake up as early as 5AM to get dressed, try to get something to eat and then catch a school bus that drove myself and a selected few from my city to one school many miles away. It was a heavy burden to pay and I spent many years of my life in awkward situations being the only black kid in a class full of white students, but it made me a better person in the long run. I learned very quickly how to relate to people who were different than me, realized the difference between racially driven comments that were done out of innocence and ignorance, as well as get a better academic education. Alas, bussing wouldn't have been necessary if school systems in major cities were adequately funded and equipped. They aren't and thats wrong, again tho women surmount the handicap and men don't. Why? Most people who are in these poor, urban areas just happen to be Black & Hispanic, whereas most suburbs have a much larger caucasion base. If I were comparing poor inner city black kids to white kids from Beverly Hills or The Hampsteads or teh Chicago NOrth side, that would be patently unfair. I am comparing 2 groups of people under EXACTLY THE SAME ENVIRONMENT.

Now, let's do the math. You have plenty of male minorities bUT NOT FEMALE??!! stuck in poor education systems where they are not getting any real motivation to excel academically. OK then where is the female motivation that seems to be clearly apparent in the numbers? They'll tell them about how they can get all kinds of 4 year scholarships if they can play good ball, but don't even try to tell them how they can get the same praise if they apply themselves in Math & Science. Many teachers and school systems just push students through to the next grade, regardless if they get the necessary education or not. Many school systems are already set to fail and it has NOTHING to do with Black men vs. Black women. That's the real issue here. NO IT IS NOT Blame the government and the school systems for not providing cities with the tools necessary to stimulate the minds of minority men. Don't blame the bulk of this on laziness. i HATE TO POINT THIS OUT TO YOU BUT YOU DID BLAME IT ON LAZINESS. YOU SAID IN THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE THAT WOMEN OUT HUSTLE(my words) OR COMPETE HARDER FOR EDUCATION. The men won't compete? Thats pretty much the textbook definition of laziness. But that isn't what I said. You did.

My mistake. Not a poll. But that doesn't change anything.
Facts exist because of pre-existing circumstances,(facts are statistical expressions of outcomes) and unless you're willing to analyze every angle ( I don't have to in this case. I am comparing apples to apples. The only difference in the 2 groups is their sex. Their environments are identical. If I were comparing black men in Alabama to black women in Cameroon then you would be right. If I were comparing black women in MIssissippi to black women in Idaho you would be right.)then it makes no sense for you to source an article that partially supports your theory, spout all this narrow-minded ignorance about a racial demographic that has no real scientific backing, then get pissed when people call you out on it. It's almost as if you're just trolling.

Originally Posted by jason_els

"POPS???????????":ma d::confuse d:

Originally Posted by Wyldgusechaz

Originally Posted by marleyisalegend

i'll go on record as saying any day that a college education makes you no more educated than sitting in the garage makes you a car. to some degree, a college degree just means you know how to listen to someone and remember what they told you. it doesn't mean you know how to think for yourself or understand real life situations.

Originally Posted by marleyisalegend

one of the smartest people i knew was my great grandmother who never made it past 6th grade.

Originally Posted by senor rubirosa

Sorry, prince.

Originally Posted by marleyisalegend

i'll go on record as saying any day that a college education makes you no more educated than sitting in the garage makes you a car. to some degree, a college degree just means you know how to listen to someone and remember what they told you. it doesn't mean you know how to think for yourself or understand real life situations.

Originally Posted by senor rubirosa

Marls, you're smarter than this.
And people who begin university with some originality of mind and intellectual creativity are not going to have it effaced by sitting in a university classroom.
If anything, it will be enhanced ... because there are a lot of very creative and original peeps at university ... behind the lectern, and in the lecture hall seats.

Originally Posted by marleyisalegend

quite the contrary. noone is disputing your claims, you're twisting statistics to make our posts, comments and opinions seem insignificant and invalid. some people deal with numbers, some people deal with real life. my boyfriend didn't graduate college but makes enough money for us to live comfortably. would i like him to get an education? it'd be nice. so would a hummer h2 and i'm living fine without it. my problem is, you seem intent on painting a negative picture of black men for what cause?? are you concerned about why black men are generally uneducated. do you volunteer at a local center to help black kids after school?? (Actually, I have for 30 years or so. I was a boys and girls basketball, softball and volleyball coach,volunteer, at Rowley Park in South Central Los Angeles while in college. I donated health care to the homeless for years in San Diego at the Joan Kroc/St Vincent Depaul Center. I am a charter member of Camp Comfort, a support organization for children who have lost parents or siblings, as well as the Mount San Vincent home for very similar kids. I was a big brother helper at a primarily black boys home in Chicago. I employ 7 blacks in my business. I guess I forgot to throw away their resumes. I am a very charitable racist)) or do you just enjoy pointing out the flaws of different races. i don't know your race but no matter what it is, i can find a website that shows a statistic of a greater percentage having some flaw. wanna know what race is the number one abuser of heroin?? (I would say Caucasian. my personal anecdotal experience tells me Caucasians get hooked on opiates way easier than blacks)the number of uses is in the hundreds of thousands. guess what?? i'm not going to tell you what race because i don't spend all day trying to prove that other people are flawed.

Originally Posted by becominghorse

Not necessarily, because universities are also very tradition-bound and academics (as in things like art history) are often very rigid and can be destructive. Mostly agree otherwise.



Would also disagree with that, because the matter of 'smartness' and 'intelligence' do matter very often more than great education. That said, educated people, even when slobs, are the ones who are educated in the specific sense, and there often is a tremendous difference. If I get your drift, you're probably just annoyed at people talking about less educated people in a way to minimize the obviously higher level of intelligence of the more educated USUALLY. Education does increase the intelligence (No it doesn't. It gives that person more tools with which to confront life, but it never makes them more intelligent. Education is simply a tool, like a saw or a hammer, for bettering one's life. Reading skills are a tool. ) in certain ways. I'm very educated by any standards so I'm obviously more sympathetic to the benefits of education. But I do also know many less-educated people who have kinds of intelligence that I definitely value more than a particular Cambridge, UK dyke I have in mind at the moment.

Originally Posted by Wyldgusechaz

qq

Originally Posted by Wyldgusechaz

(No it doesn't. It gives that person more tools with which to confront life, but it never makes them more intelligent. Education is simply a tool, like a saw or a hammer, for bettering one's life. Reading skills are a tool.