To Marleyislegend

marleyisalegend

EXACTLY. this entire argument is based on the notion that a college degree makes you "educated". technically yes but i know some post-grads who can repeat everything their teacher tells them, but put them out in the real world and they're awkard and their overducation causes them to form misguided opinions of different situations and people.

(i.e. some people who know a lot about the extremisms of SOME muslims will tends to think that ALL muslims are violent and blood-thirsty and that violence and terrorism are in fact the objective of the muslim religion)

i'll go on record as saying any day that a college education makes you no more educated than sitting in the garage makes you a car. to some degree, a college degree just means you know how to listen to someone and remember what they told you. it doesn't mean you know how to think for yourself or understand real life situations.

one of the smartest people i knew was my great grandmother who never made it past 6th grade.

......i don't wanna have to eat lettuce. those stupid bags of spring mix PISS ME OFF.....


i know you've taken to wearing your father's hand-me-down anger, but i wish that you wouldn't it's a few sizes too big and everyone can see it doesn't fit you, makes you look silly, hangs loose in all the wrong places, even if it does match your skin color.....

jason_els

Interesting point. I know quite a few couples where the wife is better educated than husband and it doesn't seem to make much of a difference but then I'm not privy to what happens when they're alone. I think, in these instances, what matters more is income disparity that favors the wife. Men still like to be the primary breadwinners because it's how we measure ourselves as providing for our family, which is our primary consideration in family making. When that disparity grows to the point that there's loss of financial control, then men tend to feel like hired bodyguards, handymen, and sperm depositors. It's important for women to make a man feel needed.

Gay couples are very different, I admit this 100% and I think it's because men tend to be less class-conscious in purely social situations. Men either bond or compete. If they bond then it means there's a common ground that transcends money, which is how American men interpret class. Then there's the great sex. If a couple has amazing sex, that counts for a lot. Alas, we're simple creatures.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

cm70874

I am actually pretty excited to say this, but I agree with Marley on this one. I am not going to argue on how accurate or valid the statistics are, but did they by any chance include any extenuating factors. Paraphrasing Marley, did they know where these individuals grew up, what type families they came from (single parent, adoptive and so on) or if the thought of "college graduate" refers to an accredited university or community college. All in all, college isn't for everyone, you don't necessarily need a degree to get a good job, some fields have entry level positions that allow you to move up. So to make the suggestion that black men need to "kick it into gear", is blantantly uncalled for. What may seem to be a necessity to you, may not be to someone else.

I am trying to get you into Heaven....but I will give you Hell all the way. LATER!!! *MUAH*

"Honey, thats why were soul mates....Your simple, your shallow and a common whore." ~K. Walker

senor rubirosa

From real curiosity, Jason, where do those figures come from?

Rubi

____________________
"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." George W Bush, Townsend, Tennessee, 21st February 2001

"Any post you make remains infinitely preferable to a mouthful of urine." Alex8 in complimentary mode to the Rubester, Baden-Wuerttemberg, 18th July, 2007

ManlyBanisters

I kinda agree and I kinda don't. It depends on the person, what they did in college and how they did it - or what they do to educate themselves if they haven't been to college. Certainly most of the well educated people I know are graduates - But I know a good few very intelligent people who never went to college too, I guess I consider them well self-educated - and I don't consider one better than the other.

As yes, now you mention income disparity is involved in the couples who've had issues with a better educated wife / less educated husband. The man / man dynamics of a gay relationship are certainly different from the woman / man dynamics of a straight relationship. I think that men probably do overcome more differences by concentrating on their sameness in a way that men and women can't (or won't?).

marleyisalegend

in my own personal experience, i was laid off recently and since then my boyfriend has given me zero grief about paying a majority of the bills, rent, cable, food, groceries, etc.. he sees that i'm TRYING to find work and makes allowances for that. i've seen several black woman who, as soon as the money is gone, they're having an affair with a wealthy rapper or a college proffessor. leaving behind the boyfriend who helped her pay for the salon she owns and fathered her two children. "UH UH, I NEED A MAN WHO GONE PAY MY BILLS, GET MY HURR DID"

i wonder how black women would've felt if, during the underground railroad, black men had said "you're too slow, you're holding us back, i'ma go get me a white woman cuz they can afford cars. BYE BITCH!"

......i don't wanna have to eat lettuce. those stupid bags of spring mix PISS ME OFF.....


i know you've taken to wearing your father's hand-me-down anger, but i wish that you wouldn't it's a few sizes too big and everyone can see it doesn't fit you, makes you look silly, hangs loose in all the wrong places, even if it does match your skin color.....

ManlyBanisters

Hmm, in the couples I've known it's been more a case of the man not being comfortable with the woman being the main earner.

marleyisalegend

is that surprising?? men are taught that our only value is through paying for the family van and keeping the cable on. men's ability to nurture is constantly down played, just cuz we can't shoot milk out our nipples.

......i don't wanna have to eat lettuce. those stupid bags of spring mix PISS ME OFF.....


i know you've taken to wearing your father's hand-me-down anger, but i wish that you wouldn't it's a few sizes too big and everyone can see it doesn't fit you, makes you look silly, hangs loose in all the wrong places, even if it does match your skin color.....

ManlyBanisters

That's quite a serious generalisation. Most of the men I know have been taought a lot more than that when it comes to their roles as fathers, husbands, lovers and so on.

jason_els

Quite frankly, my own estimation. Kinsey went as high as 10% but more recent studies seem to favor 3-7%. My guesstimate is based on the number of "straight" men I've seen on hook-up websites and sucking my cock in adult book stores. I know straight away there is no survey in the world that will make these guys admit they're gay, but there they are on their knees or with their asses in the air and a wedding band on their finger. It's sad but true.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

marleyisalegend

the existence of contradictory examples doesn't discredit the existence of the other side of the fence. when you watch a movie is the guy sitting at home taking care of the kids or sitting in a 27th floor office?? when a man is put in charge of kids, isn't if often in a humorous light at his constant misfailing??

"daddy day care"
"whatever the rocks movie was where he played a father"
"cuba's movie where he was in charge of a children's camp"

how often are father's portrayed as irresponsible sperm donators who bail when he finds out his girlfriend's pregnant because he isn't ready to handle the responsibility.

or listen to a song on the radio, do rappers rap about the connection they feel with their children, or all the money they make and how uber-masculine they are.

the most annoying thing about this forum is when people hear a different side of an argument and go "you're generalizing. no i'm not, i'm speaking from the other side of the fence. i didn't say ALL or even most, at worst i didn't include the word "some". but to deny the presence of men being portrayed and incompetent fools who's role in the house is to make money, you must live under a rock.

......i don't wanna have to eat lettuce. those stupid bags of spring mix PISS ME OFF.....


i know you've taken to wearing your father's hand-me-down anger, but i wish that you wouldn't it's a few sizes too big and everyone can see it doesn't fit you, makes you look silly, hangs loose in all the wrong places, even if it does match your skin color.....

senor rubirosa

Thought so.
And who can refute them?
No one, pops.

Rubi

____________________
"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." George W Bush, Townsend, Tennessee, 21st February 2001

"Any post you make remains infinitely preferable to a mouthful of urine." Alex8 in complimentary mode to the Rubester, Baden-Wuerttemberg, 18th July, 2007

becominghorse

Yes, since I live in one of the supergay metro areas, I forget that a lot of my cocksuckers are also straight--maybe even a majority. They usually have to beat this into my skull before I can quite get it, and even then I forget. I don't personally have any idea of what the percentages might be. And also just as true that gay-identified guys won't sometimes do cocksucking--I find each about equally pleasurable according to the moment, but I do think that in my experience that straight guys who have sex with gay men usually want to suck us more than the other way around. Sometimes have found straights who want also to get fucked in the ass, but not as often as you seem to be indicating. Most good ass-fuckees in my experience have been gay, but Julius Caesar, for one, was well-known for his love of cornholee-ism.

Writing courses are for everyone...

My dick is my immediate family. We fell in love and had to get married because one of us got pregnant...


"The First Tiiiiiime....Ev-ah I Sawwwww Yo' Dick..."
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE MAN-BUTT ROSES!

jason_els

I can only offer my evidence anecdotally, but one couple consists of a wife who is a social worker (MSW) and a husband who is a fireman. He earns more than she does and it's been a solid marriage for a long time. Another case is a cousin of mine who graduated college and is a DJ while his wife is a personal assistant with two master's degrees and is pursuing a doctorate. She may end-up making more than he does at some point but so far she hasn't. They also get along famously and have since the day they met. No issues. Another cousin has a master's degree and she only seems to date guys with barely any high school education. She's approaching marriage number 4 and in all cases, she out-earned all her husbands. A co-worker openly complained to me that his wife made quite a lot more than he did and it was a source of friction for him. Right now they're just, "focusing on the kids," though I wouldn't be shocked if they separated. Another cousin of mine divorced when his wife's career skyrocketed in comparison to his which, as an account exec at a Madison Avenue ad agency was very respectable. In all cases I felt there was resentment and a feeling of not being, "in control," or just plain, "not needed."

Now I know a few gay couples where the difference is pretty huge and some of these range from daddy/boy to Phd/high school. What seems to matter more, and I may catch Hell for this, is who is the dominant person in the relationship (and that doesn't necessarily correlate to who is... ahem... the pitcher or the catcher). It's generally harder for gay men to have long term relationships, but it seems that when they do have them, money isn't much of an issue. Maybe it's easier for the partners to empathize and so work harder to avoid money issues, maybe there are different "marital" values at work, maybe they both know that finding a good man is rare and difficult and so work harder. I truly don't know.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

VinylBoy

You're looking at so many issues that have a lot more to do than just color. Stop drinking that racial Kool-Aid and look at it from a different angle.

First off, let's look at the women. Women have always had to struggle to be treated equally in the workplace. A lot of them feel as if they don't get the same wages, benefits or treatment than a man who get the same positions. Things like this drive women to be more competitive, which explains in the simplest of terms why more women are gearing themselves to go to college.

Now, let's look at the school systems in poor, urban areas. Many of these schools do not have sufficient tools to provide an accurate education. I know this first hand for I was a student that was part of the Bussing Era. Where I was growing up, public school systems in big cities were not good compared to those in more suburban areas. My parents put me in a program that allowed me to go to these other schools and get a better education. I bussed to school, anywhere up to 2 hours both ways, from 1st to 12th Grade. I had to wake up as early as 5AM to get dressed, try to get something to eat and then catch a school bus that drove myself and a selected few from my city to one school many miles away. It was a heavy burden to pay and I spent many years of my life in awkward situations being the only black kid in a class full of white students, but it made me a better person in the long run. I learned very quickly how to relate to people who were different than me, realized the difference between racially driven comments that were done out of innocence and ignorance, as well as get a better academic education. Alas, bussing wouldn't have been necessary if school systems in major cities were adequately funded and equipped. Most people who are in these poor, urban areas just happen to be Black & Hispanic, whereas most suburbs have a much larger caucasion base.

Now, let's do the math. You have plenty of male minorities stuck in poor education systems where they are not getting any real motivation to excel academically. They'll tell them about how they can get all kinds of 4 year scholarships if they can play good ball, but don't even try to tell them how they can get the same praise if they apply themselves in Math & Science. Many teachers and school systems just push students through to the next grade, regardless if they get the necessary education or not. Many school systems are already set to fail and it has NOTHING to do with Black men vs. Black women. That's the real issue here. Blame the government and the school systems for not providing cities with the tools necessary to stimulate the minds of minority men. Don't blame the bulk of this on laziness.

My mistake. Not a poll. But that doesn't change anything.
Facts exist because of pre-existing circumstances, and unless you're willing to analyze every angle then it makes no sense for you to source an article that partially supports your theory, spout all this narrow-minded ignorance about a racial demographic that has no real scientific backing, then get pissed when people call you out on it. It's almost as if you're just trolling.