The Metric System

vince · 05-12-2008

I agree with you Phil about a base 12 system being more natural and flexible. I am fully fluent with both systems, having been educated and worked as a carpenter in the States, lived and worked in Canada in a mixed system and spent the last six years in Europe. I can judge distances and weights equally well in both the Imperial and the Metric system.

If I had my druthers, I'd build furniture in Imperial, division of spaces is easier in feet, inches and fractions. For temperatures, I hate that water freezes and snow falls at -32F. That makes no sense to me. But when it's hot out, I can relate more to 98F, than to 36C! I mean 98 is a big number, it sounds HOT. 36 is like nothing.

For driving I think I like the metric system, but it doesn't matter much. On a long drive converting distances and ETA's and gas mileage in my head passes the time. The gas mileage system in metric sucks- liters per 100 kilometers is not easy to compute. Why don't we use kilometers per liter?

To me, volume and weights are better in the metric system. I never did get ounces, cups, pints, even before I'd been exposed to metric. Basing weights and measures on the weight and volume of water makes sense. One litre of water weighs 1 kg and has a volume of 10 x 10 x 10 centimeters. It's logical and as water is such a common compound and so important to human life it seems a natural way to relate to the world. It's no more arbitrary than the length of King John's dick or whatever.

I don't think the US needs to completely convert to metric. The Imperial system works, it's expensive to change over and there are more important things to spend money on.

ManlyBanisters · 05-12-2008

Phil, I understand all the base 12 comments re-engineering and that the system has been in place a long time and is derived from practical human experience. But there is nothing standard about it (by which I mean you have 12" in a foot, 16 ounces in a pound but 14 pounds in stone). My experience is that base 10 is just generally easier to calculate, I am not an engineer but halves, thirds, quarters and sixths are entirely possible in the decimal system too and with digital calulation and computerised modeling I don't imagine engineering in the decimal system is at all difficult, really.

However this comment of yours makes no sense:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Ayesho

Standard measure makes more visceral sense than the entirely arbitrary units of the metric system.

There is nothing in the slightest arbitrary about the metric system.

Quote:

In 1790, in the midst of the French Revolution, the National Assembly of France requested the French Academy of Sciences to “deduce an invariable standard for all the measures and all the weights.” The Commission appointed by the Academy created a system that was, at once, simple and scientific. The unit of length was to be a portion of the Earth's circumference. Measures for capacity (volume) and mass were to be derived from the unit of length, thus relating the basic units of the system to each other and to nature. Furthermore, larger and smaller multiples of each unit were to be created by multiplying or dividing the basic units by 10 and its powers. This feature provided a great convenience to users of the system, by eliminating the need for such calculations as dividing by 16 (to convert ounces to pounds) or by 12 (to convert inches to feet).

and

Quote:

The initial metric unit of mass, the “gram,” was defined as the mass of one cubic centimeter — a cube that is 0.01 meter on each side — of water at its temperature of maximum density. For capacity, the “litre” (spelled “liter” in the U.S.) was defined as the volume of a cubic decimeter — a cube 0.1 meter on each side.

Both from: Origin of the Metric System

Quote:

The degree Celsius (°C) scale was devised by dividing the range of temperature between the freezing and boiling temperatures of pure water at standard atmospheric conditions (sea level pressure) into 100 equal parts.

From: Metric System Temperature (kelvin and degree Celsius)

But then I'd imagine, Phil, that you actually knew that, didn't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Greek Dude

Which of the following sounds bigger?:

Quote:

My penis is 8" long.

or

Quote:

My penis is 20.5 centimeters in length.

To me 20.5 sounds bigger - But that's because I know 8" is closer to 20.3cm so an 8" cock would be 2mm shorter than a 20.5cm cock.

Jovial · 05-12-2008

There will always be a special place in my heart for my 19mm = 3/4" wrench.

ManlyBanisters · 05-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jovial

There will always be a special place in my heart for my 19mm = 3/4" wrench.

This leads me to believe you have 3/4" nuts

DC_DEEP · 05-12-2008

Base 10 clocks and calendars would be easier, too, so why have no countries adopted those?

ManlyBanisters · 05-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC_DEEP

Base 10 clocks and calendars would be easier, too, so why have no countries adopted those?

That's a good question. The 24 hour clock fits roughly with the human circadian rhythm* but why no one has ever thought to break (or succeeded in breaking) that same period in to 10 base units I don't know. There used to be 10 months in the year, til July and August got slotted in. Why not go back to that?

I suppose the 1 year / 365(.25) days it has a lot to do with the earth orbiting the sun over a period of 365.25 rotations of the earth - but I'm sure something could be figured out for that.

I'd prefer it.

* Well - for a majority of humans anyway.

Catchoftheday · 05-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC_DEEP

Base 10 clocks and calendars would be easier, too, so why have no countries adopted those?

As far as I know there aren't any, maybe you would like to devise one for us

x704 · 05-12-2008

OK just for fun metric time and calendars

Someone already posted it but here is Base10 time.
A Guide To Metric Time

base10 calendar
4000 The Fifth Milemium - Raenbo Calendar
each month has 5 weeks each has 6 days

kalipygian · 05-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManlyBanisters

That's a good question. The 24 hour clock fits roughly with the human circadian rhythm* but why no one has ever thought to break (or succeeded in breaking) that same period in to 10 base units I don't know. There used to be 10 months in the year, til July and August got slotted in. Why not go back to that?

I suppose the 1 year / 365(.25) days it has a lot to do with the earth orbiting the sun over a period of 365.25 rotations of the earth - but I'm sure something could be figured out for that.

I'd prefer it.

* Well - for a majority of humans anyway.

Those two months were always there, they were just renamed, from Quintilus, fifth month,and sextilus, sixth month, to honor the first two emperors. The intercalary was where Januarius and Februarius are, March was the first month. It is so confusing to have 'seventh month' 'Septembris' be the name of what is now the ninth, etc.

Some people seem to be using the term 'imperial' as a general term for the traditional measurement units, it came into use when Britain and the then Empire in the time of William IV increased the liquid measure so that a pint of water would weigh a pound avoirdupois exactly. Their gallon went from 231 cubic inches to 277.42 cubic inches. The US did not adopt the change, we still use the older and smaller Winchester wine gallon. It is odd to see someone using the term to refer to feet and inches in the US.

Some decimalization, surveyors use feet divided into tenths, not inches. It is easier when using a calculator to use a tape measure with the inches in decimal divisions, rather than fractions, and forget feet.

Our system of circular measure comes from the Babylonians, who used base 60.

ManlyBanisters · 05-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalipygian

Those two months were always there, they were just renamed, from Quintilus, fifth month,and sextilus, sixth month, to honor the first two emperors. The intercalary was where Januarius and Februarius are, March was the first month. It is so confusing to have 'seventh month' 'Septembris' be the name of what is now the ninth, etc.

Thanks Kal, I always assumed because July and August were the new names to honour Julius and Augustus that they were the new months too, not a rename. Learning stuff is goooood, m'kay

dxjnorto · 05-12-2008

Estados Unidenses are insular by nature. We have a big ocean on both sides of us. A cold nation on top and a poor nation on the bottom. Why should we care what anybody else does? (Maybe denses means something?)

HazelGod · 05-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManlyBanisters

I suppose the 1 year / 365(.25) days it has a lot to do with the earth orbiting the sun over a period of 365.25 rotations of the earth - but I'm sure something could be figured out for that.

Probably more to do with the periods of the moon (which, like the word month derives from the Latin menses), and that there are roughly twelve of them in each of our orbits around Sol. Base-12 calendaring makes the most sense...you don't choose a model and try to force reality to conform to it, you build the model that most sensibly describes the reality.

DC_DEEP · 05-12-2008

Hazel and Manly, I understand that, I was merely illustrating that while the metric system is more convenient for some applications (and in some ways, simplified by the use of Base10 divisions), it isn't necessarily more "intelligent" as the OP would have us believe.

The SI basic units and derived units are perfectly adapted for the natural sciences, because they were based on certain scientific phenomena, to describe those phenomena. Since these units are used almost universally in science, many people erroneously believe that the units are more "scientific," and therefore, more "accurate" or "precise." In reality, SI units are neither more precise nor more accurate than any other system. And accuracy and precision are nothing like synonyms. In science, they mean very different things.

The OP must have had some other agenda in mind, and used the metric system as a cover. It's obvious what he thinks of the USA, and every person living here. His thinly veiled attack on Americans failed miserably, though.

mista geechee · 05-12-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Ayesho

Hey... we had the metric system in our money 200 years ago...

When the heck will the british empire adopt a decimal monetary system?

Here's why I prefer standard over metric.

Engineering.

a base 10 measurement system is only evenly divisible by 2 and 5.

And dividing it by 3, or 6, or 9 results in infinite decimals...

A base 12 measure, however, can be evenly divided by 2, 3, 4, 6.

Further.... A circle has 360 degrees... that is a multiple of 12. ( the reason we have 24 hours in a day- also a multiple of 12)

Base 12 measure makes such things as gearing systems far easier to actually design and fabricate.

The question is not why 3 countries DON'T use the metric system... the question is why the idiots who sought to replace standard with something more sensible picked a base 10 system... ( cause they had 10 fingers? that's a good reason!)

They should have picked base 12.

Standard measure makes more visceral sense than the entirely arbitrary units of the metric system.

A yard is a man's stride... a foot, the length of his foot, an inch the width of his thumb... ( hence the term- rule of thumb)
A cup what you can hold in your cupped hand, an ounce is a sip....

And Fahrenheit makes far more sense than basing our temperature scale on the arbitrary freezing a boiling points of water... which we, as human beings, have no real relation to.
No human can tell the difference between 80 and 100 degrees celsius...

The Fahrenheit scale, however, set zero at the coldest day of the year and 100 at the hottest day of the year in the German town Fahrenheit lived in.

Therefore, the Fahrenheit scale is based upon HUMAN experience of temperature, rather than a lab experiment.

Man is the measure of all things... it makes sense that we use measures that relate to our experience.

yes yes fucking yes. phil never to late wit a heave dose of commom sense.

besides, why is such a big fucking deal to the rest of the world?

i think im gonna start a thread where i grill aussie's for calling their dogs "dingo's" instead of wild dogs. cuz ya know, thats a big deal. and it really pisss me off that they dont call them the same thing we call them

im gonna start a thread grilling the english for calling their officers "bobby's" instead of cops. i mean my god, its such a big deal. and i cant stand it. and its wrong because its different.

hopefully those of you with some sense detected the sarcasm there

ManlyBanisters · 05-12-2008

* Picks up mista geechee's rattle and hands it back*

I guess I didn't see the OP as that much of an attack, just a question - but re-reading it does seem to be rather loaded.

Of course there is the odd infamous incident where metric and imperial being used side by side has caused problems - but I wouldn't suggest that the metric system is 'more intelligent' than imperial. That makes about as much sense as saying the euro is 'more intelligent' than the Yen. Ridiculous. In fact you'd have an easier time arguing that imperial is more intelligent than a base 10 system because you have to remember more things and work in more than one base.