Health Care Reform in the United States

YouTube - Michael Moore: Healthcare and Crime Rate of Norway

Moore cut that country/part out of Sicko, since he didn't think people would believe him.

Anyways, I'm not American but I'm voting for "universal subsidized coverage" since I adore those evil socialist government programs. Thankfully I live in Canada.

Love you too, NJQT . However, if I am going to have to pay for it, I should have a say.

[quote=njqt466;1457552] My God but you are naive! That is only about 2% of the problem. Besides which there are unfortunately a huge number of incompetent doctors that maim and kill patients. The victims & surviving familys have a right to sue those bastards into the ground and have their licenses permanently revoked.

There is so much more to good health care then the Dr. and do you have a source for your 2% claim?

There is a something close to that in affect. Business' with over 10 employees can't have someone denied for pre-existing conditions, and that person get s the same rate.

The Medium, Small business, and self-employed will get bent over hard if the govt passes a law saying they must provide health care, or take more money from them to provide it on their behalf.

Yes, I'm a small business owner and its hard enough to survive in a market where the govt thinks it needs your money more then you do. They mandate another tax on us and more of us will close, then there will be a bigger drain, bigger tax, more closing, copy, paste, copy, paste.

Are eggs good for us to eat agian?

Actually, there is an easy answer: health care is a right, not a privilege. It's this tired brainwashing that most 'Mericuhns have been spoon fed since birth that a national health plan is "socialized medicine" and anathema to pinko commies on your doorstep ready to make you goose step to some sort of loss of liberties and freedom. Wrong.

If you believe it's OK to turn excessive coin for treating someone's illness, then you'd probably be a good candidate for reinstating slavery. In many instances, that is exactly what is happening with low wage earners who stay in jobs that are detrimental to their health just so they can afford company health insurance.

I'm far from poor, but the cheapest health insurance I was quoted in the USA (I own three different businesses in three different countries) was to pay a monthly premium of U$S1,500 a month with an annual deductible of U$S20,000 after which Blue Cross would kindly begin to pay 80% of the rest of my medical costs up to a life-time maximum of U$S100,000! Well, thank you for nothing.

Instead, I've moved out of the USA, coming back only to vote and check on "business emergencies" in the land of the Red, White, and Blue. I have no problem with paying for my medical care, as long as it is fairly priced and good quality. I gladly paid out-of-pocket for brachytherapy and high beam radiation treatment for prostate cancer beginning in January 2007. My urologist in Argentina did his initial training as a physician in Buenos Aires. His specialty training as a urologist was completed in Paris. He did a two-year stint as a resident (two years instead of one) at the Mayo Clinic in the USA. He speaks Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and English -- all equally well. He's not only a board certified urologist, but also a surgeon. A year and a half after being diagnosed and treated for PC, I'm officially PC free for at least 5 years with a 10% chance of it recurring. And I still have a prostate! Total cost has been less than U$S 7,500.

The Internist I see here in Barçelona was originally trained in Chicago, but after she finished her internship in general medicine she married a Catalan and moved to Barçelona 37 years ago. She would like to retire, but doesn't know what she would do if she did. This year is the first year since 1999 I won't have to pay a percentage of what the government of Spain estimates non residents or citizens of other countries should pay (it's a sliding scale) for health care. Why won't I have to pay? Because this year I've officially acquired legal residency. So, I get to enjoy the same benefits as a Spanish citizen.I visited my GP here in BCN four years ago complaining about a sharp pain in the middle of my back and being nauseous. Once the gall stones had fallen back into my gall bladder she lined me up with the head of surgery at Hospital Austral who, 24 hours later, removed my gall bladder using more advanced arthroscopic technology than is currently available in the USA. Total cost for having my gall bladder yanked plus 24-hour stay complete with nursing care before being bounced out of the hospital was a whopping U$S1,495. That's substantially less than what the deductible is for more patients in the USA who need the exact same surgery. Plus in both instances, the cancer treatments/surgery and the gall bladder removal, they were kind enough to let me charge it to my American Express card and receive skymiles for my trouble.

As for this 2% of the "problem" with mall practice insurance in the USA, try finding a OBGYN in Las Vegas. The cost of their insurance is so prohibitively high that they've all moved to the other side of the California or Ewetaw State borders in the towns of Victorville or St. George where they get a bit of a break. It's the same throughout the State of Nevada for all specialties, but OBGYN's tend to pay the highest premiums. That 2% number sounds suspiciously like an insurance company's juggling the numbers.

If you're interested in going into medicine to get rich, you're just a greedy asshole interested in taking advantage of peoples' misfortune. Go to law school, instead. It takes less time. In Spain and Argentina, among other countries, candidates for medical school are spotted in the public and private schools early and invited to consider careers as caregivers. It's not a get rich and romp around in your Mercedes type of mentality. Nurses and physicians go into medicine because they want to, not because they expect to reap an early retirement and hit the links. The demeanor of the majority of physicians in the USA is abominable. Trust me on this. Every one I consulted (five urologists) about my P Cwere ready and willing to slice and dice me practically in their offices and not one of them looked at me as an individual who needed more information to make an informed decision regarding my choice of treatment. They already made the decision for me. When they looked at me they didn't see a human being with cancer, they only saw X number of BMW payments and maybe a new top liner on their swimming pools.

The delivery of good medical care to every citizen in the USA is broken and a Hell of a lot of us are going to die because of it. Who would you rather whittle away at your innards: a surgeon who became a surgeon because of serious interest in that field of medicine or that guy who barely made it out of medical school at Columbia Med because his interests are focused on making a buck?

I'm a very pissed and VERY EXPERIENCED consumer of medical services. I still need PSA test every six months for the next five years. Here's the kicker. The same ELISA test to check the PSA in my blood costs U$S156 -- cash -- in Reno. In Barçelona it's about the same as U$S33 in Euros. And the lab in Spain churns out more accurate results. Trust me on this. Been there. Done that. Had it cut out and even enjoyed the hospital food.

By the way, John McCain has never had to pay for public health insurance his entire life. Think about it.

Oh, did I forget to mention "Grrrrrrrrrrr, grrrrrrrrr, and grrrrrrrrr"?

I didn't say health care should be mandatory... I said that no insurer should be allowed to refuse anyone coverage.

Here's the thing...it doesn't really matter whether YOU pay for it or the Government pays for it because, either way, YOU pay for it.


The real crime is the politicians who spout this nonsense about socialized health care being bad...


EVERY elected official in Washington HAS national heath care.

THey voted themselves the best healthcare package on earth. They just don't think WE should have it.

They ALSO voted themselves their own, separate social security package... they are not paying into social security... they have their own, special, pension plan...
And you know what? YOu NEVER EVER EVER hear the slightest whisper that THEIR pension plan is underfunded and gonna tank....

Because it isn't... they make sure THEY are well taken care of by government fiat.


So, everyone out their in registered voter land.... once more... WAKE UP--- your legislators and congressmen HAVE the national health care they DENY to YOU.

... And they HAVE the rock solid pension plan they deny to you.


The reason Jefferson wanted us to have the second amendment is so we would have the means to revolution at hand...

Its time to demand our representatives be on the exact same pension plan as the rest of us...
I bet you anything that Social Security would be fixed damn quick.

And time to demand that they can not have ANY health coverage until we ALL have it just as good.

Some posters have been kind enough to share experiences about getting medical and health care outside of the United States. It seems that these posters have been able to secure quick visits with compassionate medical personnel, received valuable information in order to make informed decisions about their treatment, and not only received treatment equal to if not comparatively better than what we might get here, but that it was also done more cost effectively.

Would this work in America? Could we get useful, helpful, and equally solid health care coverage and treatment for a lot less than what we pay into the system? Is this a realistic question?

To play devil's advocate for a moment: Nationalized plans in European countries might work out better since there are significantly less numbers of people to cover, if you look at standing national population and rates of immigration that also need to be treated. The United States pushes 300 million. The most populous European Union is Germany at 82 million, then France at 63m, and the United Kingdom at just over 60m. Norway -- split and leaning toward retaining its sovereignty and not joining the EU just yet -- has 4.5 million people.

We're just too crowded here. Thoughts?

This article is four years old yet I think it's still relevant. The International Journal of Health Services states that by 2004, 31% of health care costs was due to bureaucracy as compared to 16.7% in Canada. Note where it says almost 400 billion dollars was spent on health care that year. 286 million spent on paperwork and needless hassle. Wonder how many more people could be insured with that amount?

We are crowded but we're one of the richest nations in the world. I think it's shameful that such a wealthy country can't be bothered to be more concerned about how much money is wasted and learn to become more responsible for taking care of its citizens.

Something has to be done. America is full of greed, the pharmaceutical companies make billions on treating the illness because there is no money in a cure. Imagine that!

We put men on the moon for crying out loud.

Other countries such as England seem to be doing fine and have been for quite some time now.

Sicko was a brilliant movie.

We could send all the foreigners back to where they came from. j/k

How do China and the former Soviet Union handle health care. Other than Canada they are the countries closest to ours in actual physical size.

I think your suggestion fails because the NUMBERS covered is not the issue... its the size of the economy.

Germany manages to provide coverage for their people despite a significantly lower GNP. Their GNP is 27% of the USA's. Their Population is also 27% of the USA's.

For contrast...
China covers a much larger number of people than the US ( 6 times as many) with less than 25% the GNP... as a result, their health care system is pretty flimsy and does not offer stellar care... but it DOES offer care.


The evidence suggests that the US should be able to provide health care at a somewhat better level, per person, than does Canada... and about equal to the quality of care provided by Germany.

The most populous country with quality universal care is probably Japan, 127.5 million. Certainly more compact geographically than the US. Health care is 6% of GDP, US I think is around 15%. Monthly insurance premiums are around $280. US. Most hospitals and practitioners are private businesses.

I wish we had their problems, which are the opposite of of ours.

Japanese Pay Less for More Health Care : NPR