AA and spirituality

I was addicted to the weed for its giggle induction and feelings of nirvana. It was some five years of narcoleptic joy and fun, but it was debilitating. I got off, stopped using it for many years...I took up Yoga and meditation disciplines.

My brother in law and Sister in law are AA people. Two decades for her, and ten or so for him. They are often annoying and blunt, but they aren't dead or driving around with the potential to kill.


As opposed to my younger brother, dead through a stupid accident where alcohol was involved.

Hang tough. It is life.

This is very good way of putting it, I feel the same way. It's not hard to understand why 'allowing everyone else to continue drinking' is not the easiest thing to do in accepting that some people do not need to drink to excess. There are differences, of course, among individual AA'ers on this matter: One I know always offered me wine of the most atrocious rotgut quality available, and another wanted me to have a good bottle of wine to celebrate something as part of a gift he was making me. If we don't drink much--I don't care to drink alone ever, and even with my bf I have 2-3 glasses of wine per week, so only one day a week do I have alcohol--we don't experience the memory of craving the way an AA'er may or may not (I imagine this may vary too, with some getting totally off the booze and not really even missing it, but nobody has ever told me about this.)

The first of these, though, who served the undrinkable wine, seemed to think it was fine to smoke enormous amounts of pot and also do a fair amount of cocaine. So that one of the peculiar things I've seen among at least some AA'ers is that they will think it is ONLY about one specific addiction, not other habits. But then, conquering one is admirable enough when that happens. This same one is a next-door neighbour and a most disagreeable person in most ways--loud, selfish and obnoxious, and we don't even speak any more. He's also filthy in personal habits. The other one I mention is wealthy and heavily medicated in other ways, has HIV, and basically lives the life of an invalid. Other AA people I've known less well have not been obnoxious though. They just don't drink, and you don't know anything about it until a drink is offered perhaps a little too aggressively. I admit to preferring this type of person, maybe they were the shy type who drank to 'be more sociable'. But this loud one next to my apt. is much less pleasant than many people I know who drink maybe a little more than they should sometimes. I just had a roommate who would sometimes drink to excess every few weeks--to the point of getting sick--but she never was irresponsible about it, and I hope she doesn't have a serious drinking problem (don't think she does, but it's true that she was only really friendly and wanted to converse a lot with me after she'd been drinking too much, and then she'd even wake me up sometime wanting to talk about her bf, etc. She was here for 14 months, and was physically very strong, but whether she has a drinking problem I don't know, but I still mainly doubt it, because she's too involved with her work.)

12 step programs are for people who NEED them.
It is something that they have to do because they are desperate.
The issue is something like they can't live with or without the use of these drugs or alcohol.


The part about the Higher Power is that if they could quit on their own they already would have. They may have already tried everything HUMANLY possible. They need a Higher Power because Human Power is not enough for THEM ( the people who have to have a program).
If you don't need a program and a higher power then great, maybe you had a drug or drinking problem which is not the same as being an alcoholic or addict whose real problem is extreme self-centeredness and or OCD.


There are at least 4 types of alcoholics described in the Big Book of AA.
Addicts probably vary as well.
One theory is that if you take a room full of people and put them in a room doing drugs if they keep it up they can all become addicted.
If you take a room full of people and give them alcohol only a few will come out alcoholic.
Now NA says it is one big disease. One program,one disease.

Go to 90 meetings in 90 days.
Praying is important.
You don't have to believe or figure out anything.
Just pray on your knees (or sitting on the ground) to nothing and see how it works anyway.
Like a placebo effect.
It doesn't matter if God or the HP hears it or not.
Pray for other people and to stay clean and sober for that day.

Here is an example for A.M.:
Great Spirit ( insert your preference " Invisible Nothing" or HP/ Goddess-God)
Thank you for my life and health. Keep me clean and sober today.
Make me a better person. Show me how I can help someone in need.
Please keep ,( your family) safe. Help ( persons) be successful with( need).
I ask your protection and blessing for....
(close)
Amen
So mote it be.
It is done
In the name of ( insert Deity)


PM:thank you for keeping me sober/clean today.

Keep it simple:
Don't use.
Go to a meeting.
Pray.
Call your sponsor.
Read your texts.
The rest will all take care of itself if you do these first.
Every time you hit a snag you can stop to pray.
You can study Egyptian stuff . I would have to look it up for you.
But you have your Higher Self,your Ka.
So pray even if to just the air. Your Higher Self that is pure energy will help you along with everything including traffic jams,car problems, bitches and assholes, electronics,anything.
Prayer takes practice and doing it everyday will really work and you will get better and better at it.

Danny,

Congratulations for taking a step forward! At least you are keeping an open mind. That's one of the keys to success:

HOW: Honesty, Openness, Willingness

I think that if you keep going to meetings you will find that each member's definition of higher power is quite different. Where most people agree is the concept of spirituality, which is quite different than a belief in a higher power.

I joined AA's sister group Al-Anon in 1995. It helped me immeasurably. I already believed in a higher power and I was into practicing some forms of spirituality when I joined. So the whole "higher power" and "spirituality" thing didn't scare me off.

I have to say that he AA Big Book has very out-dated language about what current 12-Step groups practice and believe about higher power and spirituality. Remember the origins of AA. Bill was a Christian Protestant. The Big Book is hence influenced by his and the other early members' beliefs. Since then 12-Step groups have blossomed and grown. They are very diverse when it comes to spirituality and higher power language and belief.

What I remember a sponsor who was a long-timer telling me is that it didn't matter what I called my higher power or what my concept of a higher power was. I just had to believe that there is some power that is greater than me. This was easy enough to grasp for me. It could be the collective of the group that is a higher power. Many atheist members use that. For logically many people gathered for one purpose has more power than one person standing alone.

Also spirituality isn't necessarily about belief in the "other." It has more to do with connections. For most members spirituality boils down to being connected with the group and one another. Doing service work like chairing a meeting, being the treasurer for the meeting, setting up chairs for the meeting, serving as a representative to intergroup committees, etc. serves as their way of manifesting spirituality because it re-enforces their connection to the program, the group, and the individual members. Making phone calls to individual members is a way of practicing spirituality. It takes on a significance because it's reaching out to another for help and helping another, thus making a connection.

So, go to many different meetings until you find a set of meetings where you start to feel at home. Make contact with other members. Exchange phone numbers. Go to the fellowship after meetings and hang out with the other members. That's what helped me in 12-Step. You'll find others who are like-minded about the God-stuff...

Oh and there is such a thing as Marijuana Anonymous. There are some meetings in the Chicago Area. Check them out too.

I was going to multi-quote and respond (or rather, pick apart/split hairs ) to the discourse so far, but it would take up a page and not be that comprehensible. Just know that I am here reading and absorbing as much as I can. I will, however, reiterate some the the points in my OP that might not have stuck, now that we're on page two - which is impressive for me - I don't think I've created a thread (other than my story in the fiction forum) that has warranted such response.

My therapist was taking the tack of "Go to a meeting. ANY meeting. Discard the thought for now of the distinction between alcohol and pot, and think of addiction and support in general." That was what tipped it in for me.

I have looked at alternatives to AA - many hours spent over the last two weeks. My predilection towards AA was also tipped in by the following:

I didn't have much contact with my aunt in my adult years, as I made the fatal mistake of shutting out my immediate family over the years in the face of my shame of being homosexual.

What makes it all the worse is that I moved back to my parents' home eight years ago in the face of 1) my financial straits and 2) after the death of my dad two years earlier, to give my mother some much needed support. Keep in mind during all this is that I'm still closeted, despite having the luxury of having an older sister who broke the ice and came out to the family as homosexual. Needless to say, I haven't been much support. Guess it's the stubborn Taurus in me...



Anyway, in my second meeting last night, I recognized one of the oldtimers as a former co-worker, from a local hardware store I worked at in my late teens. An affable gent, I had always liked the guy and was surprised to see him there. As is sometimes the case, the folks struggling with addictions are some in the community you wouldn't suspect.

After the meeting, he said something that had me nearly in tears, sitting in my car in the parking lot five minutes later. Keep in mind folks, that where I might have gotten misty eyed at times over the years, I haven't even let go to cry at my dad's funeral 10 years ago, or even years before that.

"Danny, you're looking for the silver bullet for all your problems. It ain't out there, son. Take from these meetings what you can and leave the rest. It will all add up soon, to a direction you can take yourself."



I hear what has been said about the "higher power" in this thread so far, which has correlated with what many folks in the two meetings have said after I expressed my concerns during my turn at the roundtable. Be it a tree, the ocean, the group I was sitting with, whatever - that higher power doesn't have to conform to anything but what means something to me.



If it means something... when only getting buzzed after work/hammered on the weekends and cranking my stereo to worship dumbass rock n roll (and the requisite sex n drugs) in all its forms has meant anything after all these years...



As I preview this post before posting, I see a couple more replies have come in. Simcha, I must have been stoned - it didn't occur to me to look for a Marijuana Anonymous.



And thanks to everyone thus far. Going back tonight. More to say later tonight or tomorrow.

I would call this an example of a drug problem rather than an addict.
The reason I can tell is that one way she could quit was because of her daughter and by using reason.
This stuff unfortunately isn't usually enough for someone who needs a program.
That is the big difference an "addict/alcoholic and having a problem with the stuff.
For addicts and alcoholics the problem is THEM and without drugs and alcohol they are still a fucked up mess. They may start to act out in other ways.

Got clean and sober over 9 years ago through AA.

I smoked a lot of weed and, while it is not physically addicting as heroin or cocaine or tobacco are, you can develop a habit and I did.

Dannymawg, I'm gonna PM you but wanted to stand up for the program and the difference it made in my life. I see a lot of stuff posted so far that I would not find helpful if I were in your situation now.

You aren't a therapist like Simcha and to label everyone who does drugs as "a fucked up mess" is a gross generalization.Are you perhaps talking about yourself? I wonder if you would tell us how "they" may act out
if doing drugs isn't considered by you as "acting out"?
cigarbabe

Danny--I'm proud of you and happy for you that you've taken some steps to regain control over your life and your choices.

My only experience with this is years ago when a friend of mine suggested that I attend some co-dependents anonymous meetings because I was hung up on a person who I was having an unhealthy relationship with. I had the same reservations that you did but thought, what they hell? It can't hurt.

And it didn't. I only attended 4 meetings but I learned alot. I learned about co-dependency and I learned what I was contributing to the situation, so I learned what I had power over. I also learned that my issues weren't as bleak as I was seeing them. I never followed the step process per se because I didn't feel I needed it. Someone said for me what was said to you, "take what works and leave the rest." That's how I approach most bits of information now.

The value is in using everything you can that gets you closer to where you want to be. Keep seeing the therapist, continue AA (although finding an NA or Marijuana specific one would help a bit more I think) and consider a life-coach to shift your energy to other goals you have in your life (the life coach shouldn't work on your addiction though).

I believe you have the strength to see this through.

Actually , I am a therapist and you need to re-read the post.
Gosh, Lady , You are such a negative and hateful person.
You really have problems.
Maybe you should get on some hormone therapy.
Or maybe Lithium.
Maybe you wouldn't be so bitter.
I wonder what you have been through that burned your soul and made you this way.
I feel bad for you and hope you can find the peace and tranquility that you desperately need.

...and by fucked up mess, I mean that they are not just nice people who drank to much. They may also start to feel terrible after getting clean and that is where they will have to work very hard to recover.
I apologize if it came across as judgmental or critical.
I have just seen so much and it and dealt with so much of it.
I know a lot of people in recovery and many times I don't have anything else to do but hang out with them since most of the time they are the only sober and drug free people I know.

LOL! Yeah, it took me years to get to a specific kind of meeting that really spoke to me after landing in Al-Anon. I'll still go to an occasional open AA meeting because it's the mothership program and has the most long-timers. It's nice to hear that there's hope, not a silver bullet, but hope.

And if you want to go to a really cool mostly gay AA meeting, there used to be one at First United Methodist Church on Broadway in Lakeview. I'll pm you with details on other places to find AA where you might find other gay people.

I never exclusively went to gay 12-Step meetings though, prefering to get a broad persective from meetings all over the area. You'll be amazed at how accepting the 12-step community is, I think...