Camp, Effeminate Men Why ?

And i do for John barrowman, No hate here, just a genuine question

I wouldn't go so far as to say i "hate" effiminate guys.

Let's just say I love them as much as I love butch females with facial hair who sound like Paul Robson, when they speak.

Lol, who;s Paul Robson STD ?

FWIW I think you're asking an important question that deserves a real discussion, but I don't think you're going to get it here. The paradox about this comm is that though it's a great way of trying to get people to look at men (not just their cocks) and try to figure out what the hell does all of it really matter, you're more likely to get a lot of responses that stick with the traditional expectations and roles.

In other words, a lot of people will ask some great questions, but for the most part, you'll never find any real discussion or responses. At the least, you *can* ask the questions openly, if not to get the answer.

With that said: male identity and male *expression* are complicated. Since I come from the female side (yes, bitch away, pun allowed) who has been doing a lot of thinking for a long time what all this shit is about, your answer is important. But it isn't as easy as a one answer fits all.

I would tell you my own specific thoughts on particulars, but mostly from the female side (why do some lesbians get all butch etc.), but it may not have the same implications, as well as not necessarily indicative of what it might be like on the male side.

I didn't make the original comment, but FWIW Paul Robeson was an actor. This was during the very early Hollywood films and he was a black actor and singer. His voice as a prominent deep baritone (bass) voice.

It might be easier if you think of Barry White's voice (a singer who died a few years ago); he was well known for throaty crooning love songs in his deep baritone.

The other dude was basically making a crack that he 'hates' effeminate gay men and butch (masculine) lesbians.

I think he means Paul Robeson.

and your opinion is

You make sense Marina, very much ,thank you for at least understanding where i am coming from with this

Great man (multi talented athlete/actor/singer).

Wonderful voice (but not on a chick - ).

YouTube - "Summertime" by Paul Robeson

Quite right.

The problem is..........?

,,,,,,,,exactly?

Be gay. Be proud. Be a man.

But don't try and be a girl - cuz you ain't one.

(and vice-versa for the lesbians).

I think among gay men that this question would qualify as "the million dollar question".

I do not remember where the statistics come from, but it has been said that about 10% of the worlds popluation is gay. The same article or research (damn I wish I remembered where that came from) stated that of the 10% about 10% of that percentage were effeminite and obvious with their mannerisms.

I have never descriminated against any individual based on their "masculinity quotient" unless the person is also a total "horses ass" who insists on flaunting a part of their lives in the faces of others when it is totally inappropriate or unnecessary to make whatever point.

I remember about a decade and a half ago taking a very effeminite gay friend into a western wear shop to find a pair of cowboy boots for a gay rodeo dance. I was with another gay man who like myself is not effeminite in any way. What amazed us was that in a store in a horse ranch area of Southern California that this "screaming queen" managed to find a set of men's cowboy boots in "pink and buff". Even more amazing was that it only took him about 10 minutes to find them in a stock of what appeard to be several thousand pairs of boots on display. They were absolutely men's boots because he is 6'4" tall and wears a size 14!

This fellow in physical appearance is very masculine, it is his mannerisms and flamboyancy that are to say the least at times annoying.

When he walked up to us carrying those awful pink and buff men's boots my friend Tim and I looked up towards the heavens thinking ......."Only ____could walk into a butch western wear store and actually find effeminate men's clothing!"

I knew his parents well, and I held his hand in the City of Hope Cancer treatment center near Los Angeles when at age 31 he was diagnosed with a very agressive form of non HIV/non-Hodgkins Lymphoma cancer. Many other oncologists would not touch it. He had this cancer come back 7 times and finally underwent a bone marrow transplant to save his life. He has been cancer free for over 12 years now.

If I seem at all critical, I think at least I had the privilege of seeing the other side of all of this in your face acid and annoyance.

It got so bad with treatment, illness and repeat bad news that his parents did not have the stomach to take him for treatments. I was the one who stepped in when their hearts and courage gave out. There were some incredible moments with him and these also need to be highlighted.

On one occasion I was there for one of the re-occurrances. He asked me to follow him into the MD's office for his diagnosis. The MD said "____would'nt you rather have your friend wait outside." His response was as follows....."No I think he can stay....His stepfather was an MD, he has held my had several times as I heaved my guts into a toilet, he helped my Dad carry me back to bed several times when the chemotherapy left me on the floor." "What could you possibly say that he hasn't already seen or heard?" The doctor went on to explain the cancer and that it was located in his lungs and around his heart.....

After receiving the news, is reaction was: "Damn, it's great to know I am really good at something!" The doctor was horrified...... _____ saw the questioning look on the doctors face.... (to answer the question the Dr's face was asking) "Yeah! I guess I can grow cancer better than anyone else!"

When the stem-cell transplant took place, he was in isolation for about two weeks as a very high powered chemotheraputic agent destroyed the remaining bone marrow after the samples were harvested. During this time, he was throwing up so violently that it blew out his vocal chords. He called me every three days because he could not have visitors. On one particularly bad day, the nurse said: "____wouldn't you rather talk to your friend tomorrow?" The answer was given in a hoarse whisper: "Look missy, according to what the doctor told me I could be dead by tomorrow morning.....barf...heave...barf, no, I think I'll talk to him now!"

During all the different chemtheraputic agents that were tried, there was one weird side effect. Each time his hair grew back in, it changed to a different color and curl status.

We had lunch in Pasadena before one of his re-checks after it was all over. He walked in to the Oncologists office and was given the good news that he was clear of cancer and that there was no sign whatsoever. His response: "Damn! I wanted some more chemo!" Again the Doctor did not know what to say. "Yeah, I want you to mix up something that will get my hair back to ash blonde." "I must admit I kinda liked the reddish color too after that second round of treatment...." The doctor got the joke and started laughing.

When he had cleared this horrific procedure, they called him as flaming and flamboyant as he was, and he drove 80 miles in a gigantic red on red Cadillac Eldorado convertable multiple times and he manged by sheer guts to get a 17-year-old High School jock through the same treatment he had experienced.

I have for years asked myself if he did not have that flamboyant "in your face" personality and that incredible will to be annoying and fight, would he have made it?

I really don't know.

Maybe we could all take this as a learning experience and direct it in another way to accomplish the same thing.

Damn straight. (Pardon the pun.)

Let me know if you want my answer, but I won't give it if you don't want it directly here. (Or PM me for it.)

Added note: I remember pointedly that (except for the women's board) all these are male-focused and dominated discussions. I've noted that sometimes the female perspective or background are not appreciated. That's why I said that if you want my thoughts from the female side, ask me and then I'll share it here. Besides, it also isn't going to be a simple answer and probably boring, but I think relevant.

I bow my head to that story and offer respect to the guy you speak of.

Some guys are naturally efiminate and I apologise to those for appearing intolerant.

I'm not.

I am annoyed when in the company of an "affected" effeminate. One who forces it and practises the art.

Most, if not all, will have met them.

The truly natural effeminate guys are not annoying at all (but it shows if you are or you're not, guys).

Love them to bits.

Are you for real? You can't actually believe that. If you do, you're beyond lost.

Interesting point. Maybe they are playing up to some sort of image/ideal?