Male-Male Intimacy

I can't remember who created this quote, But it goes- "Men are more comfortable holding guns to each other in war, than holding hands together in love."
Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?

I find this a fascinating topic. I am a psychologist, psychotherapist and sex therapist. I am also in some ways an aging hippie and predominantly gay. In the late 60s I took advantage of the hippie culture to hug and kiss my male friends, irrespective of their sexual orientation - if they felt comfortable with it. When leading "encounter" groups I noted (as did others) that until the men felt comfortable being physically affectionate that very little real emotional work was done by them.

I got involved in co-counselling (eventually leading and teaching) and again there is a culture of hugging and kissing between men.

There is something counter-cultural about being gay so being openly and publically affectionate (not prolonged "making out" as the people from the left hand side of the Atlantic call it) with a simple hug and kiss was part of my normal behaviour in the UK, unless it was clear to me that the other guy would be uncomfortable with it.

Holidays in Greece gave me frequent witness to men being physically affectionate. Visiting Argentina was interesting as male work colleagues and casual acquaintances seemed to kiss on meeting and parting and not just friends.

Here in Thailand (and surrounding countries) male-male affection - holding hands, arms around shoulders or waists and "sniff" kissing (like the air kiss but it involves a sniff) is common - more common than public affection between the sexes. As someone else said, here as in many cultures, people feel as if they are not having a real conversation with you unless they are touching you - holding a hand, holding an arm, touching the leg or shoulder.

I voluntarily teach English in a vocational school for physically disabled young adults (17 to 35 year old). The students are mainly men and they often cuddle one another, in or out of class. They will rest their heads in the lap of a friend. My students will hug me, sniff-kiss me, sit on my knee, rest their heads on my lap and often stroke and touch me when speaking with me. It is possible that this is more prevalent in view of their disabilities but culturally it is normal behaviour.

Fear of being thought gay or soft or weak or whatever seems to inhibit many men. The most natural and undistressed feeling between any two people is to love and feel close.

I saw news reports about tragedies, such as collapsing walls in football (soccer stadia). I could see men from rival team fan groups cradling an injured or dying "enemy" weeping and stroking and kissing them. We shouldn't need such extremity to break through our reserve about being intimate with our fellow man (and woman. too, of course).

I think much of this depends on individuals. I grew up in a home and in a church were men hugging each other was normal and expected, so not a big deal for me.

I'm also a touchy-feely person by nature, so hugs come natural to me, as does putting an arm around someones shoulder or even messing with their hair. But I've learned to be respectful of other people's boundaries.

Some guy friends don't do hugs, and prefer handshakes, and that's cool. Many others are more than cool with hugs. I would say among guys in their teens and 20s, we tend to be much more chill about that stuff.

My friend who is a high schooler told me that his mom once asked him if he was gay because he had been laying against another guy friend of ours while we were watching a movie. My immediate reaction was to burst into laughter because such an idea is so absurd to me, but I know other people have this weird notion that physical intimacy among guys equals sexual intimacy.

I wish our American culture would see the value in allowing men to feel free to be themselves and love each other.

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My friend who is a high schooler told me that his mom once asked him if he was gay because he had been laying against another guy friend of ours while we were watching a movie. My immediate reaction was to burst into laughter because such an idea is so absurd to me, but I know other people have this weird notion that physical intimacy among guys equals sexual intimacy.

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the sad thing is, almost everyone I know would think the same thing about your friend. it is crazy.

In France and the eastern world, men kiss on the lips as a greeting, is that wierd? would straight men do that here?

Yeah, that's just sad. It's like our culture's gaydar is set on ultra high sensitivity. It's a bit bizarre and sad.

I never saw men kiss on the lips in France, except between gay men, father and son, brothers, and other male/male family relationships (the latter, a bit less common). That said, I've seen men kiss other men on the cheek as sign of friendship, which is very taboo in North America.

Alos, two male friends kissing each other on the cheek is more in some regions of France than others; for example, in Northeastern France, people are generally a little less affectionate in public from strong Germanic influence.

No, because that kind of affection outside is too taboo in the North America. You can't change a culture overnight.

No way! The obsessive and paranoid fear of looking gay is just too extreme in Anglo-Saxon countries. Therefore, no male would dare to kiss or often to even just hug or casually touch another guy. Anglo-based (U.S., U.K., etc.), Northern European, and Protestant societies are just more obsessed with homosexuality than most others, though maybe not necessarily more homophobic.

I wonder how the inability or lack of ease that men have in United States culture -- let's be honest, perhaps Canada has less hang-ups? -- correlates with some of the more taboo expressions of male-male intimacy. Pardon me for thinking a little twisted here, but there is some general knowledge about the dehumanizing, painful experiences of prison rape. Often, the aggressors don't even acknowledge that they're participating in anal course, but rather that they're dominating or taking "ownership" over someone else in their caste system of sorts.

Margaret Cho also talks about how the things gays and lesbians do are so stigmatized in everyday life, that when they get around to fucking, they can do it with a frivolity and joie de vivre unlike what heterosexuals experience. (It's a thoughtful point, to say the least.)

In general terms, I imagine we wouldn't have so many religious/spiritual, knee-jerk disgust reactions toward gays if everyday people weren't so easily threatened by the contact. And why the hell is this the case? I just never understood it. I come from a cultural background that doesn't make a big deal of affection anyway, just because giving someone a hug or a kiss or an embrace doesn't mean that you want to bone 'em.

Around one or two months ago I kissed a man who wasn't my father for the first time in my life.

When I was very young (on the border of my conscious memory) when I saw my father, we would do the 'peck-and-touch-cheeks' kind of kiss when he would leave - much to the mortification of my yet barely-formed masculine side.

My partner and I were visiting friends for the weekend and upon arrival the simultaneous 'hi', 'how are you?' and 'nice to see you again' occured.
Afterwards the more intimate greetings followed and myself and said friend moved in for a hug(that alone was a recently new experience for me) and he pursed his lips slightly, leant forwards and I recipricated. We ended up doing the whole 'peck on the cheek' thing.

I didn't hesitate or withdraw and it never occured to me not to follow suit. In truth, I didn't even realise what I'd done until a few minutes afterwards and things had settled down a little. It didn't bother me in the slightest. It didn't feel odd, strange or uncomfortable in any way - for me, I think the comfort (or lack thereof) in doing such a thing is largely dependent on the atmosphere and situation in which it takes place.

When leaving our friend's house, I was very tired and actually didn't notice the 'kiss-goodbye' gesture until it was too late. I did feel a little foolish but know that he would understand.

Up until five months ago the only way I had ever greeted another man was by handshake.

Mixed signs/gestures are confusing, i work in a team of men and women, although i am gay and have a partner i am masculine etc ( not meaning to offend anyone). I feel strange in relation to how some of the guys are with me, masculine butch men and married talk with me intimately about masturbation, sex lives etc, some rub my back,massage my shoulders, lean into me when talking, brush specks of my suit and hug me, although i don't have a problem with it, they never do it with each other and i never do that with them just so my actions would not be misconstrude. i asked a collegue (female) do i give certain body language off that the lads feel its ok to do and she replied no u are just you but they don't do it with each other.The point i am trying to get at rather badly i know is, why would straight men do that with a gay guy, but me being a gay guy would not do that with a straight guy ?, sorry for rambling, maybe the problem is with me analysing to much.

I know the feeling. I have always hugged my male friends, even when I thought I was straight. I now always hug and kiss (pecks on the lips) my gay male friends and straight/gay female friends. I have a few straight friends whom I also kiss (on the cheek) when I hug them.

To me, it is simply a sign of our mutual love for each other as friends and human beings. When you have friends who are close to you, I think you should express your feelings and nurture that relationship as much as you can.

Nothing gay about it--it just feels natural and right.
Isn't it amazing to see how natural male-male intimacy can be and feel? I have often found certain contexts to be contraining and restrictive and I am constantly working on not allowing that to bother me as long as I am in a place where I am safe.

Interestingly enough, you, DC_DEEP and Matthew were (as far as I can recall) the first men whom I'd ever greeted with a hug.
I have, of course, hugged men before - family, friends, being supportive - but I'd never used it as a greeting; I've always been a 'brief-but-firm handshake' sort of guy, with men and women.

Unfortunately due to my age, a lot of my peers are/were the stereotypical teen and bodily contact is not readily pursued. It was wonderfully refreshing to be among company who not only realise that any one action won't give you a label, but that the labels themselves are irrelevant anyway.

It is, and I'm glad I experienced it. Now that I've been broken in, I may become a serial back-patter.

Maybe they just feel comfortable with you as a friend - nothing more.