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Hillary Clinton cares nothing for democracy

Originally Posted by HazelGod That's a nice philosophy to adopt if your only objective is to win, regardless of the collateral damage of such victory. Or as some VFW once said, "We had to destroy

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Old 03-28-2008   #61 (permalink)
Trinity is offline

Quote:
Originally Posted by HazelGod View Post
That's a nice philosophy to adopt if your only objective is to win, regardless of the collateral damage of such victory. Or as some VFW once said, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."

If you actually give a rat's ass about the people of the nation whose interests you purport to represent (you know, the actual job of the POTUS), rather than just seeking to hold the title for yourself, then this is clearly the last rationale you should adopt.
Collateral damage? You mean to suggest that the better candidate and more experienced candidate should concede to the demagogue candidate so that the demagogue candidate doesn't suffer from revealing his shortcomings and inadequacies as a nominee until he loses in the general election? Give me a break. You Whine. Man up.

And if Obama is feeling benevolent to the people he can join on the Clinton ticket as VP and unite us all right now...can you hear the choir singing?
 
Old 03-28-2008   #62 (permalink)
bigguy83 is offline

Obama is the worst choice for president because his policies are all pie in the sky and most likely would not pass a House or Senate vote.
 
Old 03-28-2008   #63 (permalink)
faceking is offline

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguy83 View Post
Obama is the worst choice for president because his policies are all pie in the sky and most likely would not pass a House or Senate vote.
The beauty is .... his policies and views really haven't come out yet.... we'll save that for Jul-Oct.
 
Old 03-28-2008   #64 (permalink)
Zoe73 is offline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Industrialsize View Post
you wont see Obama delegates defecting to vote for Clinton..not in this lifetime
Dude. Even Newt Gingrinch, gave Obama credit for his courage to start a dialogue on the topic of race.

Gingrich Engages on the Issue of Race - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog
 
Old 03-28-2008   #65 (permalink)
Zoe73 is offline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity
The exaggeration gaffe on the part of Sen. Clinton is not as damaging, due to the fact that candidates embellish on the campaign trail, including Obama.


due to the fact?

What did Obama embellish about his experience? You're forever baptizing that he has no experience. In truth he's a been a legislator in the State senate longer than Hillary Clinton has been a Senator.

I agree w/ F_King ;)
More than an embellishment. Hillary alone started this "contrast and comparison" crap to attack Obama as inexperienced. When pressed on her experience she started this diatribe about what she did in Kosovo, Bosnia and Ireland. When her platform and claim to experience has been dismantled and discredited, what is she campaigning on?

It's more than an embellishment. It's making a false premise when she volunteers she is more experienced and gives a resume that is fake and padded. It's fraudulent.

She was seen singing at a US camp in Tuzla. It was a USO show. Those shows are for US troop morale, period. They aren't for negotiating treaties with the UN.




 
Old 03-28-2008   #66 (permalink)
sargon20 is offline

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/opinion/26dowd.html

Hillary or Nobody?
By MAUREEN DOWD
WASHINGTON

While the cool cat’s away, the Hillary mice will play.

As Barack Obama was floating in the pool with his daughters the last few days in St. Thomas, some Clinton disciples were floating the idea of St. Hillary as his vice president.

She can’t win without him, said one Hillary adviser, and he can’t win without her.

They’re stuck with each other.

It’s one of my favorite movie formulas, driving the dynamics in such classics as “A Few Good Men,” “The Big Easy” and “Guys and Dolls”: Charming, glib guy spars and quarrels with no-nonsense, driven girl, until they team up in the last reel. He spices up her life, and she stiffens his spine. And soon they hear the pitter-patter of little superdelegate feet, who are thrilled not to be pulled in two directions anymore.

And everybody’s happy. Or are they?

A couple of weeks ago, when Hill and Bill mentioned the possibility of a joint ticket, it was an attempt to undermine Obama and urge voters and superdelegates to put Hillary on top; the implication was that this was the only way Democrats could have both their stars, and besides, it was her turn. The precocious boy wonder had plenty of time.

But with the math not in her favor, her options running out, Bill Richardson running out and her filigreed narrative of dodging bullets in Bosnia and securing peace in Northern Ireland unraveling, could Hillary actually think the vice presidency is the best she’ll do?

One Hillary pal said she wouldn’t want to go back to a Senate full of lawmakers who’d abandoned her for Obama. And even if she could get to be majority leader, would it be much fun working with Nancy Pelosi, whose distaste for the Clintons has led her to subtly maneuver for Obama?

Maybe The Terminator is thinking: if she could just get her pump in the door. Dick Cheney, after all, was able to run the White House and the world from the vice president’s residence, calling every shot while serving under a less experienced and younger president. And Observatory Circle is just up the street from where Hillary now lives.

But, aside from Barack and Michelle Obama’s certain resistance, would it fly? Many Hillary voters are hardening against Obama, and more and more Obama fans are getting turned off by the idea of dragging down the Obama brand with Clinton dysfunction.

“No drama, vote Obama” placards and T-shirts are popping up at Obama rallies, and one of his military advisers dubbed him “No Shock Barack.”
It’s hard to imagine that after spending her whole life playing second-fiddle to a superstar pol, Hillary wants to do it again. She’s been vice president.

Could the veep talk be a red herring? A ploy designed to distract attention from the Clintons’ real endgame?

Even some Clinton loyalists are wondering aloud if the win-at-all-costs strategy of Hillary and Bill — which continued Tuesday when Hillary tried to drag Rev. Wright back into the spotlight — is designed to rough up Obama so badly and leave the party so riven that Obama will lose in November to John McCain.

If McCain only served one term, Hillary would have one last shot. On Election Day in 2012, she’d be 65.

Why else would Hillary suggest that McCain would be a better commander in chief than Obama, and why else would Bill imply that Obama was less patriotic — and attended by more static — than McCain?

Why else would Phil Singer, a Hillary spokesman, say in a conference call with reporters on Tuesday that Obama was trying to disenfranchise the voters of Florida and Michigan. “When it comes to voting, Senator Obama has turned the audacity of hope into the audacity of nope,” he said, adding, “There’s a basic reality here, which is we could have avoided the entire George W. Bush presidency if we had counted votes in Florida.” So is Singer making the case that Obama is as anti-democratic as W. was when he snatched Florida from Al Gore?

Some top Democrats are increasingly worried that the Clintons’ divide-and-conquer strategy is nihilistic: Hillary or no democrat.

(Or, as one Democrat described it to ABC’s Jake Tapper: Hillary is going for “the Tonya Harding option” — if she can’t get the gold, kneecap her rival.)

After all, the Clintons think of themselves as The Democratic Party. When Bill and Dick Morris triangulated during the first term, it was what was best for Bill, not the party. In 1996, when Bill turned the White House into Motel 1600 for fund-raisers, it was more about his re-election than the re-elections of his fellow Democrats in Congress; in 2000, the White House focused its energies more on Hillary’s Senate win than Al Gore’s presidential run.

And even Clinton supporters know that Bill does not want to be replaced as the first black president, especially by a black president with enough magic to possibly eclipse him in the history books.
 
Old 03-28-2008   #67 (permalink)
HazelGod is offline



Unbelievable.

I just now got another call at our house from the Clinton campaign, urging us to "stand up for Hillary at this weekend's conventions, because I know she'll stand up for us."

It was another pre-recorded message, but this time was from former President (and aspiring First Tool) Bill Clinton himself.

I'm going to try to get a good recording and upload it, purely for the amusement!

EDIT:
OK, I captured the message off my machine and linked it here (MP3, 560K). Remember kids, my wife and I are both in the public record as having caucused for Barack Obama...and she's been selected as an alternate delegate for tomorrow's fun and games. So much for Hillary's promise of not trying to steal delegates.


 
Old 03-28-2008   #68 (permalink)
gjorg is offline

Hazel, The funny thing is , is that you don't nearly like Obama as much as you hate Hillary! This is now clearly evident. We could have a doorknob running against Clinton (and we do) and you would vote doorknob. At this point you are to transparent!
 
Old 03-28-2008   #69 (permalink)
Zoe73 is offline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
Collateral damage? You mean to suggest that the better candidate and more experienced candidate should concede to the demagogue candidate so that the demagogue candidate doesn't suffer from revealing his shortcomings and inadequacies as a nominee until he loses in the general election? Give me a break. You Whine. Man up.

And if Obama is feeling benevolent to the people he can join on the Clinton ticket as VP and unite us all right now...can you hear the choir singing?
more experienced candidate?

more experienced at fraudulent claims. Oh wait, she's not that great at that either, everyone is debunking her bs "experience."

An appearance at a USO show is experience?

Grr.. and this nonsense about Peace in Northern Ireland.

"Clinton a decade ago proclaimed would become Northern Ireland's first Catholic-Protestant playground - as evidence that her contribution as peacemaker was more symbolic than substantive. ``She was in charge of christening this wee corner (of the park) as some kind of peace playground. It never made any sense then, and there's nothing there today,'' said Brian Feeney, a Belfast political analyst, author and teacher. ``Everything she did was for the optics.''

The reality is that there is on-going political tension between Protestant Northern Ireland leadership and retired peace activists like, Hume, are trying to garner all the support they can to re-establish pro-Irish (catholic) policies. Versus the US deferring to the UK, which is the m.o. of GW Bush. If Hillary was so influential and left a lasting peace in Northern Ireland, how is it the main nobel prize winners are at odds w/ her role in the process? Why is it that they are still undermining one another?

She didn't leave a lasting peace, when those factions are still working against one another and her contribution to the peace process was a superficial one. The "Playground for Peace" park she dedicated as a safe place catholic and protestant children to play was a PR stunt and it didn't make any sense to Ireland at the time. Playground for peace was what she did, Trinity. That was her bs contribution. It was shelved w/in weeks.



Check it out here:
World news Feed Article | World news |

...

so to wrap it up:

Ireland: She did a photo in the park, She spoke to newly formed Ireland woman's political party - that folded two years - when no one voted for them. Protestants and Catholics are still working against one another. How lasting was her influence? The playground for peace was scrapped two weeks later.

Bosnia story: Crap. No sniper fire - it was a huge LIE, it was a USO show (apparently Sinbad isn't the only comedian, after hearing Hillary's tall-tale)

Kosovo story: Crap Crap Crap. Kosovar refugees were already in Macedonia in May, 1.5 months after bombing began in Serbia. There were no real security concerns for Hillary Clinton. The concern at the time was that Macedonia was flooded with a flux of Kosovar refugees, with no means to provide food and shelter them all. Think about what how hurricane Katrina left people displaced. That was the concern of the moment.
Hillary Clinton was the first lady, she is not a representative of the UN. She was not in a position to give aid or negotiate with Macedonia. Madaline Albright was the secretary of state at the time and she didn't even negotiate with the UN for borders. The question was aid shelter and relief for Macedonia to house them. The borders were ALREADY open. Bombing started in March 99 - Hillary brought her opportunistic mug on the ground 1.5 months later south of the front line. I know. I was there, supporting that air campaign, Trinity.

Hillary's not just a liar - she's ignorant on her foreign policy.

I think Sinbad sums up how a lot of us feel about Hillary Clinton. She's not supporting the democratic party...she really believes it was supposed to be inevitable that she was the democratic nominee.

Sinbad:
"What got me about Hillary was her attitude of entitlement, like he messed up her plan, like he had no reason to be there," Sinbad said. "I got angry. I actually got angry! I said, 'I will be for Obama like never before.'"
 
Old 03-28-2008   #70 (permalink)
HazelGod is offline

OK, I captured the message off my answering machine and linked it here (MP3, 560K). Remember kids, my wife and I are both in the public record as having caucused for Barack Obama...and she's been selected as an alternate delegate for tomorrow's fun and games. So much for Hillary's promise of not trying to steal delegates.
 
Old 03-28-2008   #71 (permalink)
HazelGod is offline

In the ensuing hour since Bill Clinton left his voicemail, I've received two additional calls from his wife's campaign.

I'll give her this much...at least she's not being half-assed about going back on her promise.
 
Old 03-28-2008   #72 (permalink)
playainda336 is offline

Quote:
Originally Posted by amhersthungboi View Post
So, the moral of the story: Obama cares nothing about the democracy of Florida and Michigan because that's the rules, but BE DAMNED if someone else want to play by the letter of the rules.
No...Florida and Michigan don't care about democracy, otherwise they wouldn't have held UNCONSTITUTIONAL primaries.
 
Old 03-28-2008   #73 (permalink)
gjorg is offline

Quote:
Originally Posted by playainda336 View Post
No...Florida and Michigan don't care about democracy, otherwise they wouldn't have held UNCONSTITUTIONAL primaries.
Florida and Michican are states not people. The peoples voice from these two states have not been heard. Who in these states made the decision to hold these primaries?
 
Old 03-28-2008   #74 (permalink)
amhersthungboi is offline

Quote:
Originally Posted by playainda336 View Post
No...Florida and Michigan don't care about democracy, otherwise they wouldn't have held UNCONSTITUTIONAL primaries.
Which part of the Constitution are you referencing? The entire primary process is actually a-constitutional.
 
Old 03-28-2008   #75 (permalink)
Zoe73 is offline

I just thought about this...with all the time I've spent digging in to the whole Northern Ireland claim (I already knew Kosovo and Bosnia was doubted from experience)...that I'm debating it on a web-board dedicated to big cock?

;)
 

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