Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHd Even though they don't remember it, it still hurts. If it isn't needed then there's no need to inflict pain. No medical governing board recommends R.I.C. |
Not true..
For many decades circumcision was standard neonatal practice in the US. It was adopted because studies showed that it reduced STD transmission and the US at the time, was trying to be proactive about STDs.
In the 50s and 60s- almost all the baby boys were routinely circumsized. If it hadn't been for my own Dad's, I would never have seen an uncut dick in the flesh till I was 20-something.
A bunch of hippie nature folk activists pressed hard to get this standard thrown out back in the day... and a lot of clinical research was done that threw doubt on the original findings of reduced transmission. These clinical studies were based upon lab experiments... not upon actual penises in actual pants.
However- as circumcision rates have fallen in the States ACTUAL data show that STD transmission rates have risen.
And new research from Africa shows a large reduction in female to male Aids transmission among the circumcised.
So- Sorry -proof is its healthier. Not a huge effect, but a definitive one.
Further- on the issue of pain.
There is this ridiculous idea permeating the culture as the result of the psychiatric seventies that ANY experience of pain is traumatic and that such traumas affect children in thr form of mental illness or personality issues later on.
The idea that if everyone had the perfect childhood, never suffered from want or physical pain or neglect, always had their "self esteem" re-inforced, we would have a perfect society- full of perfect people.
Of course- there is not one iota of evidence that this is the case; and lots of evidence against it.
There is nothing particularly bad about pain. ITs a sensory system we evolved for the purpose of enhancing survival thru LEARNING.
Pain teaches, it instructs, it warns. There is zero evidence that the experience of ordinary pain over the short term, as from ordinary injuries, surgeries, cuts and scrapes etc, has any negative effect on mental health or physiology.
You give your kids a shot to immunize them- it hurts, but they survive it and they learn that some experiences are painful but worth it.
Most human cultures thru history have had rituals in which young children are exposed to severe pain. Particularly male children.
Part of the reason for this is that its important for human children to learn that pain can be dealt with, can be survived and can be endured, when necessary.
These rituals survive because they enhance overall tribal survival by not allowing human children to become TOO frightened of mere pain to do what must be done.
So- have to reject the idea that circumcision is "bad" merely because it, temporarily, "hurts".
Quote:
|
As adults they may not "miss" their foreskin, but many men regret it was taken from them. Note how many at LPSG have written that they wish they still had theirs.
|
Yeah... the kind of guys who have "issues" over their genitals , or issues with mommy and daddy.
You might as well be angry with your Dad for not giving your Mom an X chromosome so you could have been a girl.... ( oh... the breasts I
could have had...sniff )
Sorry... but if you're an adult circumcised man who's upset over the fact of it... then grow a pair and act like a man.
I know a guy who lost half an ear in a barfight and I never hear him whine about it.
Quote:
|
Most piercings don't remove a body part and they can be reversed so there isn't much analog to circumcision.
|
Look- you complained about the fact that its a HURT needlessly inflicted by your parents... so , yeah its perfectly analogous... even moreso since there is ZERO evidence that pierced ears translate to less infection as an adult.
Quote:
|
I likewise can't believe the intensity and emotionalism of the pro-cutters. If it's "inconsequential" then why advocate doing it to someone who has no say in the matter?
|
I am not a "pro-cutter" I am not saying EVERYONE should be cut. If you don't want to trim your son's willy, fine.
However, The anti-cutters are saying that EVERYONE should abide by their worldview... that everyone should make the descision when they are full grown... that your parents have no right to make any descisions about your body or health that involve any form of pain or irrevesible loss.
Sorry... but my stance is NOT extremist, nor totalitarian. Your's IS.
Quote:
|
Celebrities are inconsequential to most people's lives but look at how much discussion there is about them.
|
...to our lasting shame.... but - what? Are you suggesting that agitating to make medical procedure illegal is equivalent to gossiping about bradgelina?
Quote:
|
The O/P is pro-cut, are you going to criticize him for starting a circ. thread?
|
Why would I? I am not adverse to anyone expressing any opinion.
I am adverse to those opinions that are angling toward, unnecessarily, telling me what I can or can not do.
Its the push for circumcision of infants to be banned that I object to.
And its the "theory" behind this agenda; a theory predicated upon poppycock, that I argue against.
No reflection upon you intended... people have enlightened me to my own poppycock from time to time...
That whole unconditional love and no spanking thing sure SOUNDED like a brave new world...
But, science proves its bull.