Suicide

This is why I adore you Meg. You truly can see the two sides of this. SLB and Lee make a very good point. We the living call it selfish because we think the person was not considering our feelings. Truth be told, they think just the opposite. They think they are doing us all a favor by saving us from dealing with the burden they perceive themselves to be to us. Maybe a better phrase is Selflessly Intended.

My first real girlfriend was suicidal and not dramacidal. We had broken up but still remained friends. One Christmas, I had gotten her a diamond pendant. She had given it to my mother unbeknownst to me and wanted her to keep it since she knew how much it meant to me and to her. My mother said she thought Ingrid was down and we should throw a party for her and invite all the old school gang that she hasn't seen in years. We did and she came to the party. She was shocked to see all the old school gang and they were truly happy to see her. "I'm an awful friend, I should keep in touch with you more often." "You free this weekend? Let's hang out." All night it went like that. She would later go to my mother's room and sit there and cry her eyes out and confess she was having thoughts of suicide.

Thank God I had a mother with a background in psychiatric nursing. Ingrid is now an executive with CBS News and proud mother of 4.

Don't lecture me. I've been on both sides of the issue, too. I didn't make the attempt, but I seriously considered it. The one thing that kept me from it was my consideration of the effect it would have on my survivors.
Yes, it is, isn't it? Perhaps it would have been the pussy's way out for you. But for you to assume that it's the pussy's way out for any other person whose circumstances you don't know... well, I stand by my statement that it's a callous thing for you to say, whether you've been there, or seen it happen, or not.

First,

I would like to thank the OP for opening up this topic to discussion. So many people have opinions which are based on their view of the sanctity of life, religion, concern for the survivors. But I am here to say that it is simply an act of tragedy.
Though I may tire of hearing someone say over and over that they are going to kill themselves , and yes perhaps I may even want to tell them to get over themselves, I have to pause for a second. Most people do not want to be unhappy, quiet as it as kept. WHen someone is saying this they are crying out for help. WHen we tell them to get over themselves or even show disdain for behavior we discern as being self serving we dont really know what the end might be.
I remember as a child hearing my brilliant, loving and hard working father mumble often "You all are going to miss me when I am gone" Or "You would be better off without me" I would in my teenaged ignorance roll my eyes and think, "Dad, you need to stop being melodramatic! " Years have passed and I now wince when I think of my responses to his expressions of pain. My father spent all of his life suffering from chronic moderate to severe un diagnosed or medicated depression. When the "family curse" hit me in my early thirties , as my dad was dying from cancer, I could for the first time understand him. I could understand how someone could want to leave an existence of chronic misery with no hope for change.

One of the problems is that the term "Depression" is perhaps one of the least understood and misused in our English language. Depression isnt just being down because you made a C on a test. Depression is to unhappiness for some what an atomic bomb is to a grenade. Clinical depression is a whole body experience and incredibly insidious. It can shut down your organs and immune system. It can make you second guess your every decision because you wonder am I really seeing things the way they are or am I "Over reacting" as you may be wont to hear from outside sources on a constant basis. It can make you think that your family would be better of without you, this hopeless, worthless piece of non functioning flesh who sometimes cant see far enough outside of your depths to remember how to spell cat or wash your clothing or take care of your most basic life functions.

Yes, depressed people like most people with chemical mental disorders can gauge the difference between the way they ARE and the way the WERE before the deluge of darkness hit. Yes you may get tired of hearing their issues for the 100th time, yes you get tired of picking up the slack for what they dont do, no you arent sympathetic because perhaps you may not have experienced it and because you cant see it it isnt there. But believe me it is...They live in constant fear that at some point their wives husbands, lovers, friends and children will see through their attempts at normalcy that are woefully inadequate and will leave in disgust. So, yes some just decide to save you the trouble. Oh... and NO not everyone has good results with anti depressants. THere are many poor souls who have been on just about every med there is and it still is not helping to quell the tide. If it has worked for you it is a blessing but not everyone is so lucky.

SO when you hear someone saying this to you, dont assume you know they wont do it this time. Because tommorow might be too late.

If you really want to see the different faces of depression and suicide in one of the most realistic portrayals I have ever seen. Watch the movie "THE HOURS" It will make you think. It made me stand up and cheer! I said to myself, "YES! SOmeone finally gets it! "

How the blue-fruit-filled-buns is what I said a lecture??

I was just pointing out that I believed Meg's opinion to be one that was not formed lightly or in ignorance. You have every right to disagree with her and me and the whole bloody world. I didn't say your opinion wasn't valid, you just seemed to be jumping to conclusions about the two posters you quoted - one of whom I happened to remember you were wrong about.

This issue is obviously close to your heart in many ways and your opinions are strongly held, but that goes no way to explaining why what I posted came across to you as a lecture. It just wasn't.

Naughty, that was an incredible, beautiful post. Thank you. You walked in another man's moccasins for much more than a day.

Wow. Double whammy, right? Your major depression hits (and you have to deal with that) at the same time your father is dying (and you have to deal with the pre-grief). I hope you've been able to find the treatment that works for you. Mine isn't quite as complicated as yours - when the headaches get out of control, I do tend to get a fairly severe "chronic pain depression." But still two issues to deal with at the same time. My primary care physician for the past 3 years transferred, so I have to train another one. He's not off to a good start with me, and is insisting that we discontinue the treatment that worked for 5 years, and go back and try some others that didn't work and had debilitating side effects. Oh well.

Anyway, thanks for sharing that post.

I hate to sound crass but I don't think there is a problem of getting the blues. It used to bother me a lot especially during my abusive childhood mainly because I was never taught how to deal with it properly or see it for what is was.

We, in our culture have been taught that feeling down is some horrible thing akin to leprosy. We treat mental illness as illnesses instead of seeing it as just one of the many human emotions. There is a pervasive unspoken expectation that happiness is the "normal" state everyone needs to be at in our society and anyone who deviates from that is abnormal, less of a person, wrong. While the truth of the matter is getting the blues is just part of being human. We just haven't in our society learned to deal with it nor face up to the fact that it is something that everyone deals with some better than others. We try at all costs to avoid and deny something that is unavoidable and part of human nature.

I dealt with it by coming to terms that it is just a part of me but only a part, that it is a temporary condition which always, always passes and I've learned enough about myself to see what things make me happy and pursue that instead of rocking back and forth in a the rut of depression. It something I had to learn myself as no one in my family nor society would ever touch that subject.

I guess you didn't read my original post properly. Here is the very first thing I said in my first post.

"I generally believe it's a pussy way out."

That means IN GENERAL. Not every time. There are exceptions to every rule and I get that.

You are right, I am wrong. I am stupid.I'm sure you do.

I am stunned by a lot of the cavalier attitude of many in this thread regarding the matters of suicide and mental illness. I am glad some people "get it" but more often than not, shit flies over people's heads.

A judgmental question is still a question and it is still judgmental.

I recommend educating yourself on the topic of suicide and mental illness.

UGH.

I just checked my ex into the hospital today. All joking aside. He was having suicidal thoughts, was depressed, battles alcoholism, and I'm really glad he's getting help. He explained that he felt like there was not another option... and he even grazed his wrists with a knife a few times (nothing serious, just nicks)

This is a pretty touchy subject for me- especially today.... because it just hit home as of 5:30 this morning... and has been something I've dealt with hands on for the past 14 hours or so.

I should probably skip this thread for a few days and stick to the funny ones.

Sigh.

Good luck with him! It's a scary freakn thing... I'm glad he's getting help as well! My heart always breaks when I hear about someone committing suicide, I don't care who they are.

I will apologize if I was one of those people Lex.

I was trying to be as open to seeing both sides as possible, but trust me, suicide is nothing I take lightly. Think_Kink has further strengthened my knowledge on this subject through her sharing of incidents and Meg has taken it even further today.

My apologies if I came across as trite on this issue.

he agreed to get psychiatric help so, its a step foward. its hard to look at it as a friend and a cousin. I dunno I am kind of over this thread, I appreciate the intriguing topics that have been going on back and forth, and you guys can continue to do so, but I need to look more at the real world of things so (hopefully) I won't respond to this thread. its different when events start to happen in real time so-to-speak.

to SexandCandy its weird how this and your problem coincided on the same date, and we sort of have the same mentality about it


thanks everyone for the input and time that you put into it, but like I said real life is real, internet is just the internet so I need to focus more on the problem with him.


I dunno if you guys are going to get it or not

My mother-in-law attempted it last year and holds the record for highest dose of zyprexa swallowed, but unfortunately its not directly lethal. She called the other day just before I had to go to school and threatened to try again. I thought to myself... don't tease me bitch. Some people just can't do anything right :(

He was, like you said... Parasuicidal or dramacidal... but it was a cry for help, nonetheless. I'm happy to say he's in a mental health facility actively talking to counselors....