Is bathing with ya kids abnormal?

boynextdoorkpt

I don't care what is written about me so long as it isn't true.
Dorothy Parker (1893 - 1967)

Aquwin

well I don't have kids of my own but I've been taking care of my sisters kids ever since they were born, and I barley got her youngest to be able to do it by him self with no help at 6.

dolfette

i don't think it would ever be harmful for my son to see me naked but i think we'll both feel uncomfortable with it when he's starting puberty and seeing women as sexual.
actually, he'll most likely decide to stop before that. kids just reach an age where they shut off that way.
but up until that point, if he wants to chat to me in the bath then i'm ok with that.

my kids see images of nudity every day...i paint nudes. i own books with nudes. they're imune to nudity. i like it that way. better than learning from porn.

DC_DEEP

That's like asking "at what age does a child learn to read?" Yeah, there's an average age range, but as with all averages, the extremes vary widely. As it's been said, many times already in this thread, it't the point at which the child begins to assert his independence, and asks to bathe himself.

ManlyBanisters

There has never been a stage in my life where I felt uncomfortable about the fact that my father and I would (and still do) occassionally see each other naked. I am still comfortable with functional, non-sexual nudity around my parents and other close family. My parents did an extremely good job of teaching me that functional, non-sexual nudity is no big deal by treating it like it was no big deal. I am attempting to do the same with my offspring.

Seeing as your question is about a child seeing the opposite sex parent naked (not about bathing with) then I would say there is never an age where it is inappropriate for a child to see either parent naked, taking into account that the nudity is both functional and non-sexual. (By functional I mean for a reason - showering / changing / etc..)

Mademoiselle Rouge

I breastfed in front of my dad. I was a little uncomfortable popping out my breast at first but it didn't take long before i realized he didnt care and didnt watch and he was happy i was breastfeeding.

I couldn't give birth in front of my Dad, he wouldnt want to be in there anyway. I think we are both pretty comfortable with conversation about things but still pretty modest about nudity.

oldman9x7

I have skimmed through some of the posts in this thread and found that there were many (well, maybe not many but some) who thought that with your own kids it wasn't so HORRIBLE for them to see their parents naked.

My son, who will be 58 this summer, recently brought up an event which I hadn't thought about in many years but I hadn't forgotten. He had seen something on TV which prompted him to enter into a conversation with me that eventually led him to ask me the dimensions of my dick when I was young. I first had to tell him that age had little or no effect on size but then I questioned his reason for asking and he cited the above mentioned 'event'.

Recalling where it took place, we reckened that his age at the time would have been four years old. The way it came down was that I was showering after a long day on the road when John came into the bathroom and asked if he could take a shower too. I told him "Sure" and he shucked off his clothes (he was barefoot and just wearing underwear and shorts) and climbed into the tub with me. I soaped him up as soon as he had got wet and he ended up facing me with my hip area about at his eye level. I had no warning when he reached his hand and laid hold of my member and continued to hold it as he examined it and asked if he would ever have one as big as mine. I guess I told him that it was likely that he should. He had noticed my foreskin (my wife had let him be circumsized at birth) and had pulled it down over the head with questions as to why his wasn't made the same way as mine. I don't know if it was the conversation or the fact that he was still hanging on to it but I got a hard on and moments later he showed me that he had one too and this set off a whole new line of questions about why I had one that was so much longer and thicker than his. I think I made up some lame reasons for it all and very quickly we got out of the shower and I went to my bedroom in a towel.

John's memory was pretty much the same as mine but now he reminded me that I hadn't answered his original query about size. There was no point in being coy so I told him and he accused me of being stingy. He complained that I had held back "that gene" because he never surpassed six and three quarters in length with a hair less than six inches in girth. I had to laugh as I reminded him of how many girls and women he had favored in bed. I recalled that I had caught him with a neighbor girl when he was just eleven years old and I was sure that he had never slowed down from there.

Gramps

The truth will set you free
but first it will piss you off.

Freddie53

This is a fine present to give to your son. Mom can bathe with you son and that is OK, but I can 't bathe with your sister Sally because all I am like all men and have "male sexual drives."

You don't think women don't have sexual drives and just as strong? In recent years the number of female teachers seducing high school boys is about even with the number of male teachers seducing female high school students.

The difference is that 30 years ago, the 16 year old boy was the school hero for bedding down that 24 year old new female teacher. Now we are beginning to see it as what it is, no different that a 24 year old male teacher seducing a 16 year old. Of course the seducing can go both ways. It is always the adult's responsibility to show caution. when caution is thrown to the wind, it is always the adult that gets the greater blame no matter what gender as it should be.

There is a another problem with your logic, you compared one gender bathing and the other gender showering. The context should be the same in order to make a valid comparison.

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Freddie53

I've lost it. I get the notifications to my e-mail box and when I logged on to find the post, it disappeared with along with thousands of socks through the years.

Most of us are guilty here of brining in other things to the equation that was not there in the OP's opening post and the OP has thrown in two at least two separate issues. It is almost impossible to have a rational debate on an issue when there are as many elements bantered around as there are now that we are this far along in the thread.

Having said that. someone didn't understand what I meant and opined that perhaps they didn't read my post right. Some reading my posts have the benefit to include all that I have written in the past to help in determining my intent.

This person was talking about the Internet and health classes made it not necessary to bathe with children. I wasn't talking about 10 year olds. I was talking preschool.

I have said this next statement so many times through the years that I hate to repeat it again, but some weren't here the last time I said it so here goes:

I was referring to the nudity, not the bathing. In my house I bathed with my three sons when they were very little. They would ask if i would get into the tub. But our house is a modern house with small bath tubs. The bathing together came to an end by the time they were four I'm sure if not before. I went in and supervised them.

Same problem with the shower. I did try that. I wasn't comfortable with my sons eyes being six inches from my genitals. Scratch that idea.

The best place for children and parents of the same gender to be together in a nude situation is probably the locker room or dressing room for the swimming pool. That is what the the room was builty for. It isn't a private bathroom. It is normal. Mothers can take their young sons and fathers their young daughters.

This might be something parents should just see happens at about age 2 to 4 years of age. The children won't be able to remember faces and names. It will all be a blur, but they will just "know" that men and women don't look the same. They may not remember why they know that. they just do. I point the later out to say that it is doubtful that if your neighbors son saw his sixthgrade woman teacher in the ladies locker room at age 3 that he is going to remember a face and a body. If the teacher is wise enough to keep her mouth shut, he won't even know that it happened. (I say not wise in the school setting. blurting out that you the teacher took showers with one of your students isn't a very wise move, no matter how innocent it may have been or the age the child was at the time. Somethings are best unsaid.)

I suspect that is why years ago, boys in puberty were made to take mandatory showers. The kids saw other kids in all stages of puberty. Questions about growth and development were noted by all the kids.

I digress here. But I did want to clarify the age and due to the constraints of most home bathrooms that preclude an adult of any size being in the tub at the same time as a child much older than three or four.

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jason_els

Sorry Freddie, but I just can't stand that. I will not use a locker room that permits young children of the opposite sex in them and I will complain to the management if I see it happen.

I'm not your sex-ed class and I resent being made to be so by proxy.
It's not my job to show your daughter what a naked adult male looks like so don't make it my job. It makes me extremely uncomfortable because one wrong look, one innocent movement, could make it look like I or anyone else in there, is acting inappropriately. That's not a fair position to put anyone in.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

dolfette

maybe he means the locker rooms like i have in my local pool...rows of cubicles that two or three people can fit into.

Phil Ayesho

THis tactic in debate is called a "Straw Man"... rather than actually refute or address my point, you distort or falsely 're-define' my point to the argument you feel you CAN counter.

That is not what I said at all. I said that when a male parent SEEKS nude, private time with a child ( of either gender) that it bears some SCRUTINY.
If that male parent is NOT the biological father... then it bears actual investigation.

There is a difference in a familial atmosphere of casual nudity... and a man taking his daughter into a shower.

There is a difference between a family sleeping together... and the father sleeping separately with his daughter.

And, really, don't pretend you don't know there is a difference.

Try reading up on sexual molestation statistics... it will open your eyes as to which gender poses the greater risk.

It would be lovely and sweet to "believe" that we are all the same....but it would be naive and irresponsible, too.

The vast majority of violent and sexual crime is committed by men. It is well established that this is largely due to the effects of testosterone...

While less concerned with mother's being naked with their children, I am still uneasy with any parent pressing naked time on their child. Most children express a wish for personal privacy at the point where they are becoming aware of gender differences. This is natural.

Parental pressure can dismiss this need on the part of the child, forcing a parent's ideology on the child's natural tendencies.


As I said, even when the nude contact is perfectly innocent... the child's brain is going thru a phase of sexual wiring... It IS possible to screw up your children even with the best of intentions. ( especially with the best of intentions )

In almost all human societies, female children are separated from adult males.
This cultural more did not evolve and persist accidentally... its important to human survival and healthy human societies.


The problem is with your reading comprehension.
I was responding to someone ELSE saying that they bathed with their children.

I was purposely pointing out that a mother BATHING with her son is NOT the same as a daughter SHOWERING with her father.

In other words, I was pointing out to another poster that their comparison of the two as similar was invalid.


While I would be less nervous about a father bathing with a daughter.... I would still be more nervous than with a mother bathing with her son...

The critical parameter is AGE.

Under no circumstances should a father be in a shower stall with a 2 or 3 year old daughter, simply because, innocent or not, it puts his penis in her face.
Sorry... I don't think that is appropriate.

But I think a father bathing with his 2 or 3 year old daughter is just fine.


However... if when the child gets to be 6 or 7 or 8... it is LESS fine to even be bathing with the child.


Once again. IF you are paying attention to the CHILD's feedback... children will let you know when it is inappropriate for you to be cavorting naked with them.

What I keep hearing is folks who have this "ISSUE" trying to foist their unproven solution onto the psyches of their children.

But then, just to be clear... I think taking your kids to sunday school is just as bad. Borderline child abuse.

How about we simply raise the child to be healthy, educated and capable of making their own choices, rather than indoctrinating them with our pet peeves?

Freddie53

Right or wrong, most locker rooms in the past have aloud parents to bring their child of the opposite gender until age six. Jason, I don't remember trying to put you in my sixth grade sex ed class, I am sorry you feel that way.

Having said that, I don't like the idea of children of the opposite gender being with their parent if they are old enough to remember actual people. That would mean no older than three at the most. I agree with you about four and five year olds. They are old enough to remember actual faces and remember all the parts of the body that go with it. I wouldn't feel comfortable with half of my female sixth grade students remembering my nude body at all. But you do have a point about a child making an accusation and we have to consider that. However, I don't believe two or three year olds would be able to make any charge like that. But, if as a matter of course, people are going to believe a child that age knows what they are talking about over just "a look," then we have reached the point locker rooms will HAVE TO provide family rooms.

That then brings up the issue of the sixth grade boy who does not want to change from the skin out in front of his little sister and his mother in the family dressing room, but dad says he is too young to go to the men's dressing room alone. I am not wanting to start another wrinkle with this last comment, except to say, no matter what any adult does concerning nudity and children, there are going to be some new disadvantage or new problem develop.

Let's face it, sexuality is such a charged subject that I am beginning to wonder if anyone can discuss it rationally without bringing what ever baggage they have or as the case may be don't have to the table.

Consider this: Some people believe that nudity among immediate family is fine and is encouraged and that includes kids in puberty as well as children past the age of puberty.

Then,

There are other people who believe that any nudity between family member is inappropriate past the age where children require personal help with bathing, dressing etc.

And....

There are people who believe that any nudity outside the immediate family is not appropriate though family nudity is fine.

However,...

Some people believe that casual nudity with non family members that is non sexual is fine, but please, not their own family members.

So some people don't mind if they are seen by other people of the same gender as long as it isn't family members. Teen age guys: Fine if the high school coach sees them in the nude while in high school just as long as it isn't dad.

Then others don't care if dad sees them in the nude, but please not the high school coach.

Some don't want ANYONE seeing them in the nude.

Some don't care if EVERYONE sees them in the nude as long as it isn't sexually charged

Then the fifth group don't care if people of the opposite gender see them in the nude, but not people of the same gender.

EXAMPLES CONCERNING A 13 YEAR OLD BOY THAT IN FOOTBALL GAME GETS A HERNIA. ONE OF THE MAIN SYMPTOMS OF A HERNIA IS ONE OR BOTH TESTICLES BECOME SWOLLEN AND HURT.

This can be a medical emergency and it can a problem that needs attention. I know. I was 13 when I had a hernia. Every time I did anything strenuous, my right testicle more than my left would swell. If I continued doing the strenuous activity the swelling continued to get worse causing great pain. At the end of my examples I will share how it went at my house over 40 years ago.

That means that when boy 13 years of age hurts himself and has a hernia these are the possibilities that may happen:

1. Dad is consulted. Son shows dad his very swollen testicles. Dad makes appointment and the doctor is consulted. Mom is told about it, but the son doesn't want mom involved in the actual checking.

2. Mom is consulted. Son even at age 13 wants Mom to check, feels more comfortable with mom than dad. The doctor is consulted.

3. Mon and Dad are both consulted. Since neither parent is an expert on swollen testicles and at what point a little swelling is serious, both parents check the son out as the first parent (doesn't matter in this example) is not sure and wants a second opinion before calling the doctor.

4. Sons explains to mom and dad or just one of them that his testicles are very swollen and they hurt. He requests that an appointment be made to see the doctor immediately. The son doesn't want EITHER PARENT to check to see if there is a problem

Now it is time to see the doctor:


1. The family doctor is a man. The son chooses to have that doctor who he has known all of his life to conduct the examination.

2..The family doctor is a man. The son asks if a female doctor can do this as in his words, "I'm not going to let another guy check out my privates even it is my doctor."

3. The family doctor is a woman. The son is OK with her doing the examination as she has been his doctor for his lifetime and the son recognizes this is a professional exam and it doesn't matter if it is a man or a woman.

4. The fmaily doctor is a woman. The son asks if there is a male doctor that can do this. He as known Dr. Sally Jones all of his life. Son says he would be very embarrassed having her examine him and then seeing her at church, ball games, etc.

What does this have to do with this thread? One thing. We all bring to the table our perceived notions of what is normal, what is abnormal, what is OK, and what is not OK. and who we are comfortable seeing us nude and who we are not comfortable seeing us nude.

There is no way we can build a consensus of the OP's question because of the analogy given above. That situation isn't an optional medical problem. Some doctor will have to do the examination. There will be a surgery facing that 13 year old boy,

For the record, I will share how it was handled in my own real situation. As I recall it was my mom that I talked the most to about it when it started. I was mow the grass and the testicles would start swelling. The more I mowed or did any other physical activity the more they would swell and hurt.

Mom had my dad check when they were swollen to verify that what I was saying was really true. An appointment was made. Dad went with me and was in the room when the doctor examined me and was sitting where he could see what was happening.

Same process when I went to see the surgeon. As is true in most cases, nurses were involved in post op care. It was a nurse that removed the stitches, not a doctor. But through the entire time from the first swelling to when the doctor dismissed me, my mother did not see my privates. Dad did two or three times in the course of things. But it was mom that I talked to the most about the symptoms and such.

I hope by sharing all of this we can gain a better appreciation that there is not always a right and a wrong.

I strongly agree with the posters that said the child's opinion is the most important one as to when it is time for the child to have privacy and not have a parent hovering over the child at bath time, ETC. If I had told my mother that I would feel a lot more comfortable if she checked to see if my testicles were really that swollen, I'm sure she would have done it though I'm sure she would ask why I didn't want dad to do it.

I'll go one step further. Unless there is a compelling medical reason etc. a parent should respect their child's wishes as to when the child wants privacy. A parent should not over ride that unless the parent is certain that there is a medical problem the child is trying to hide. Then the parent has to step in and do something. Unless it appears to be an emergency, there is time to make an appointment with the doctor.

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jason_els

My argument has nothing to do with parents or doctors addressing medical emergencies and if my kid has injured genitals he or she is going to see the most available doctor who is most competent to treat that injury.

I'm uncomfortable exposing my genitals to female nurses and doctors but I do it if it's necessary for treatment.

When I said, "sex ed class," I was referring to a father bringing his daughter into the men's changing room specifically to see male genitals. Same deal with a woman bringing her son into the women's changing room. I was not referring to your school instruction.

As to the worry of false allegations, I was more concerned about the parent mistaking a look of surprise or shock for some kind of salacious look; a parent thinking that perhaps an adult is purposefully making him or herself overly conspicuous in order to expose themselves to the child; comments from other adults about the child being taken the wrong way; etc.

True story: I went to a gym I frequented and after my workout threw on my towel and went into the sauna for a good sweat. I walked right in the door and in there was a father with his two young sons who appeared to be around 7 or 8 years old. He and the kids were wearing swim trunks in the sauna. Everyone else was wearing their towels. I had never seen anyone in this sauna wear a towel before and immediately I became uncomfortable because if I did remove my towel I thought the father might think I was acting lewdly in front of the kids. Apparently everyone else thought so too. I felt so uncomfortable thinking of all the possible ways this could unfairly compromise me that I got up and left after less than a minute. I actually would have been slightly MORE comfortable if the kids had been nude, but even then that raises some issues as I once was in a sauna with a young boy who pointed at my penis and said, "His penis looks just like mine!," because I'm very small and retracted when I'm flaccid. I was mortified, the father apologized, and I chalked it up to, "shit happens."

I like the idea of family changing rooms and if a parent or kid isn't comfortable with one or another parent changing with them then don't take the kids into that kind of a situation! It's simple as that. Work out these issues before you decide to go to the water park/gym/public pool.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

stanmarsh14

Think the local public swimming pool here in Long Eaton works well with minors in public changing room environment.

Family room can be used by parents / responsible guardians accompanying minors up to the age of SEVEN. After this age, the minor MUST use the separate Sex changing rooms, and with a same sex parent / responsible guardian up to the age of 14... NO EXCEPTIONS!!! This also applies to disabled users, as all changing rooms comply with the Disability Discrimination Act in the UK.

Simple rules like this I can live well with :)

The Perv

www.westpark.tk