The Gay Question... Again... Still...

Some people have blue eyes...some people wear a blue contact for kicks sometimes...thats that...some guys like guys...same recessive trait as far as I'm concerned...and some guys that are straight enjoy sex and don't care about the other persons package...they are just sexual. The world worries over it and it is so pointless

Well what chemical reaction turns you gay? An increase in estrogen? Behave, that'd make you grow breasts and become more emotional.

But seriously what actual effects are proven to actually effect sexuality inside a person? None from what I can see, therefore I believe it is either a personal choice/belief or you've been bought up like that.

So, are you going to read what anyone has written after they've done research, or are you simply going to continue to depend on what strikes you as reasonable?

This topic comes up time and time again.

Unless it's proven that there is a gay gene or brain I cannot believe that people are born gay. I'm a skeptic and I need hard proof to believe something. The Flat Earth Society still believe the earth is flat. Some people believe aliens visited Roswell, NM in the 1940's. And there still are people who don't believe we landed on the moon. I believe the earth is round, I don't believe aliens visited Roswell, and I do believe that we landed on the moon. I'm also not convinced of global warming.

I think our sexuality is a combination of many things that stem from our childhood; how we were raised, our relationship with our parents, early sexual experiences, interactions with our peers, our schooling, and many, many things. But I also think it's very complex and we may never know or even understand the complexity of it. Some people consider themselves gay or straight based on who they have sex with but others don't. That in itself is confusing.

For example, this thread about a straight man trying gay sex. Personally, I thought it was fiction, but you never hear it the other way around.

My First Gay Experience (from a straight man)

Where are all the gay men who have had gay sex their entire life and then try sex with a woman and say "That was awesome. No more men for me!" You don't. The straight man in that thread chose to have gay sex, and no that does not make him gay, but yet some will say that having even just one same sex experience makes one gay. Other people will say that our actions do not define our sexuality, so right there is a difference of opinion.

I was talking to this gay man one time, and he said he realized he was gay when he was 16. When I asked him how he knew it, he said something like(I'm paraphrasing) "I was always into women, but I couldn't get a girlfriend like my friends could. Women didn't find me attractive. So I started hanging with another group of guys who were gay and we started fooling around. I started enjoying it and after that I never bothered with women again." That sounds like a choice to me. It sounds to me that if this man had found a woman then he would have gone straight.

Obviously that's just one case, but it's interesting because he figured that at 16 if he couldn't get a girl so he couldn't be straight. Then he got guys to like him so he was gay.

That is your take on the situation.

How about he tried sex with men because he hadn't had much success with women and realised how much he preffered it? Even then though he must have had some interest in trying gay sex. I've known a few very straight men who have little success with women but are not interested in men simply because they are straight.

Sorry I just don't buy your logic.

You are straight. You cannot presume what process a man goes through before he comes to terms with the fact that he is gay. Judging by your post history you don't want to understand because you've already made your mind up that they had arrived there by a process of choice.

That's just one incident I recall. As I said, it's very complex and I don't think we'll ever fully understand it. And you're right, a straight man could have no success with women and not bother to try gay sex at all. And you're wrong, I do want to understand, and when I was younger I did think people were born gay, but as I've grown older my belief is that it is a choice. And I'm not out to tell straight people to go gay anymore than I'm trying to tell gay people to go straight.

That's something we agree on then.


I'm glad to hear that. Understanding breeds tolerance IMO.

I haven't the time to relate my full history but I'll summarise as best I can. I dated women and had sex with them from the age of 15. I was even engaged twice. During this time I periodically had sex with guys and felt a compete shit afterwards eventhough it excited me more so than with women. It was expected by everyone I knew that I would get married to a woman and probably have kids. I broke off the 2nd engagement and made the decision to be true to my feelings when I was 23.

You will argue that I made a choice. You are correct I did but I chose the only viable option available to me. The alternative was to lead an unhappy and unfulfilled life based on lies. That would have been unfair to me and to any potential partner.

When you use the word choice there's a difference between accepting the truth about yourself and thinking to yourself " Now will I be straight or shall I follow the gay route or perhaps somewhere in between"?

Yes. I'm guilty of choosing to accept my physical make up. Not once since I was 23 have I regretted that choice.

I tried dating women from High School up through College. They made great friends...but there was not one thing that attracted me to them. I can remember being fascinated by the male physique from even before puberty. When I finally accepted that I was gay my whole life made sense...from the smells I'm attracted to...the things I like to do, etc. I have no doubt whatsoever that I was born this way...and the doctor friends I have (one who is a shrink) believe the same thing.
Based on the horrible things that people I know have gone through with family...physical violence...being fired from jobs... not 1% of me can believe that it was a "choice" to be that way. Perhaps a few here need to quit watching Pat Robertson and join the real world...

Congratulations on your choice

Read "The Blank Slate" by Stephen Pinker sometime. There is no separation of nature and nurture. Some biological processes are turned on only by environmental cues, and sometimes the same environmental cue affects different genotypes differently.

What must be remembered is that humans don't have sex for reproduction. If we did, we wouldn't have sex outside a woman's fertile period, and we would still exhibit the sexual swellings indicative of a female's cycle like our great-ape ancestors. Sexuality has evolved into social function, of which reproduction is one of several outcomes.

And here's something else to consider: if a non-human intelligent being was to study humans objectively, a range of sexual preferences would be noticed and deemed a part of our natural behavior. Why? Because it can be observed in populations across the planet and over all of our known history. Like it or not, it's been around for a very long time and will continue to do so.

What is the evolutionary benefit of families having some gay children? Well, humans did not evolve to live solely as breeding mated pairs. We lived in small groups, and the group worked together for the survival of the group. If everyone was reproducing to his or her maximum potential, then the survival rate of the group would diminish. Having an occasional gay child who stays in the family to help raise siblings has genetic benefits. In terms of math, a person having a child has only 50% of his nuclear DNA passed on. Helping to raise a sibling instead has about the same rate of return, but with a higher probability of outcome, since now there are three instead of two raising a child. And it takes an advantage as small as 0.1% to make a huge difference over time in terms of evolutionary benefit.

Oh, and personally I find it funny when people say gay is wrong because the bible says so, then try and cite science to battle the idea that some people are just biologically gay. If you want to hold the bible as being truer than science, then go back to writing on stone tablets and get away from the computer.

Besides, who cares why it is? It just is. Can you explain how in a family one kid will hate string beans, even though everyone else loves them? Was it nature? Was it nurture? Does it matter? The kid doesn't like string beans, and you can't force him to change. He might eat them, but he won't like them.

Do you remember what age it was that you chose to be straight?

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Originally Posted by JustAsking Do you remember what age it was that you chose to be straight?

ROTFLMAO A word of advice JustAsking. Never attempt to teach a pig to speak. You will annoy the daylights out of the pig; and waste way too much of your valuable time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frizzle Well what chemical reaction turns you gay? An increase in estrogen? Behave, that'd make you grow breasts and become more emotional. Not all gay men are emotional, mincing fops. I dare say that if you were to meet many of the gay men from this site IRL you would have no clue they were gay.

I can't think of a non-snarky way to voice my opinion on your post so I am going to go with my gut instinct.


That is one of the stupidest thing you have ever posted, Frizzle! It's right up there with my mothers theory on why PETA shouldn't have a problem with mink coats.

"Minks are related to weasels which are cousins to rats which are of course vermin. Therefore we are doing mankind a service by ridding the earth of vermin." njqt466's mom

Given how poorly homosexuals are treated worldwide there is no logical reason to believe it is a choice. If your opinion is correct, why on earth would anyone choose to be gay knowing that they would face a lifetime of harassment, bashing, discrimination, not to mention censure and condemnation by family and alleged friends, etc.

Knowing what the world is like no parent in their right mind would choose to rear their offspring in such a fashion as to ensure they would become homosexual adults. I can't even begin to imagine what twisted thoughts you have on what that would entail.

That is one of the stupidest thing you have ever posted, Frizzle! It's right up there with my mothers theory on why PETA shouldn't have a problem with mink coats.

"Minks are related to weasels which are cousins to rats which are of course vermin. Therefore we are doing mankind a service by ridding the earth of vermin." njqt466's mom

Um, minks ARE related to weasels, but they are COMPLETELY unrelated to rats, except that they are all mammals, which also includes humans. Minks and weasels are mustelids, which are in the order Carnivora, which also includes dogs, cats, bears, racoons, hyaneas, mongooses and civets.

There is no physical proof that you are born gay or it is a physical reaction within the body. Therefore it must be down to to either a server physological problem, well as many people in this thread would love to think, or a personal choice.

If your opinion is correct, why on earth would anyone choose to be gay knowing that they would face a lifetime of harassment, bashing, discrimination, not to mention censure and condemnation by family and alleged friends, etc

Just because someone is put at a disadvantage or put into a diffcult or akward situations, doesn't mean that it isn't their choice.