Aids/hiv - A Myth?

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Originally Posted by Wrey *Wrey hangs his head and wonders why God is so stingy with intelligence and so generous with stupidity* I often wonder the same thing.

That saddens me as you are often one of few learned voices of reason.

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Originally Posted by hotrocker982 lol. AIDS/HIV a conspiracy, you say? This has significant comedic value to me. Please, don't listen to the naysayers... do continue. I LOVE anything that makes me laugh, even if it is total and complete bullshit. What next, a conspiracy theory regarding the death of JFK?

JFK is not dead! I don't know why the right wing radicals insist upon spreading such vicious rumors.

Dongalong,
You are a frigging genius. Why didn't I think of this a long time ago. I also have been curious about whether HIV causes AIDS. But I had this crazy idea that in order to really find out, I would have to get an education in the field, review the medical scientific literature, and formulate my own opinion.

But what an idiot I was! Why didn't I see that all I had to do is to come to a big penis support group where there are almost certainly no professionally trained researchers in the field of virology and just ask random people to challenge some video I got off the Internet. Then (and this is the real genius), if noone could effectively challenge it, I have my answer that HIV surely doesn't cause AIDS.

dong, I have to thank you for this. You really have come up with a brilliant solution to solving scientific problems.

I couldn't be inspired to write anything of any value. If nothing else, this thread made me laugh until I pissed myself.

HIV was mean in the 60s Hepatitis Infection Virus.

its a fact.

ledroit,
This is the crux of it. I wish I had a succinct way of making this point. The point being that scientific conclusions are made through a process that is different than just debating issues and adding up the score. One might find flaws with how it is conducted at one point in time or another, but without it we are screwed.

All these denialists work outside the process and bring their case right to the public, where it can't be challenged so rigorously. This is the first sign of crackpot denialism. They all justify it by insinuating that the established professional community is compromised so it is not to be trusted.

With HIV denialism, it's Big Pharma that has bought out all the scientists. With Evolution denialism, it is science following an Atheistic agenda, therefore not being objective. With holocaust denialism, naturally it is the Jews that influence the historians, etc.

I submit that outside the scientific community any debate is interesting, but not much more valuable than bar room conversation.

What's a fact? WTF????

HIV has nothing to do with Hepatitis, hepatitis affect your liver, whereas HIV affects your immune system.

HIV is Human Immunodeficiency Virus it hasn't changed, it will never change and because the virus' DNA has so many flaws, it constantly changes its 'form' and so the body can't produce antibodies to fight it, and so your cells can only sit and watch as it suppresses and destroys your Immune system.

AIDS on the other hand isn't a virus at all it's a Syndrome; the result of HIV.
'Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome' - because the HIV virus has destroyed, basically, your immune system you can no longer fight off infections.

Some people say "can't you just take Antibiotics then?" but no, antibiotics work along side the immune system... if you don't have one to start with they don't work.

So because the form of the virus constantly changes there is nothing your body can do - in the time it takes the body to produces anti-bodies for the current proteins on the virus they've changed so the antibody is rendered useless. Thus there, as of yet, can't be a cure.

To the point, it has nothing to do with Hepatitis.

HM, that was exactly my point. Do you know how many retards there are out there who believe in conspiracies behind all the other crazy shit I listed?

This video was total bunk, completely biased. Most of the people they interviewed were nuts, making all sorts of ridiculous assertions, stuff that even I know is crap and I'm certainly no doctor, yet they brought in nobody credible to challenge any of them- they just played the scary conspiracy music while they were talking. I just sat through all 2 hours of it. Maybe the worst part is at the very end when one of the proponents of this nonsense smugly states that even if the "AIDS dissenters" are wrong, at least they're doing a lot of good, while if the "AIDS supporters" are wrong they could be doing all sorts of harm. It didn't even occur to this guy the enormous damage that could be done by spreading this misinformation, and I fail to see what good they are doing.

I must add that the damage HIV denialists are doing is already documented. The death toll in those countries who are ignoring the mainstream science is well known. HIV denialists have a lot of blood on their hands.

Since I've worked in tropical infectious diseases for 15 years, sadly, I do know. It makes me crazy. Don't even get me started on the lunatics who believe vaccines cause autism. These crazies have anointed the brain surgeon, Jenny McCarthy, as their chief spokesperson.

Why is it so important for you to believe this? I simply don't understand?

If anything, this thread may get some people to educate themselves by doing a bit more research and not just believe everything that we are supposed to hear from both sides of the story. I have certainly learned from the links provided by kundalinikat, thank you by the way!

I watched many conspiracy videos on Google and Youtube during a couple of days off work and no way are they all bullshit! There are so many cases of propaganda and smear campaigns used to achieve huge financial gains and/or control.

One thing I learned from those clips was to step back and look at both sides and try to understand why people would go to such efforts to put accross their message.

Concerning the documentary I linked in the OP, IF they are right, many millions of dollars in funding, many jobs, treatments etc. etc. will be lost or proven to be a fraud which equals lawsuits etc. etc. - certain Yaysayers have a big interest in building up the myth.

IF they are way off the truth, what do the documentarty makers have to gain from making such claims?

OK I answered that one for myself here! - PUBLICITY, DVD Sales, Book sales, website hits = millions of dollars!!!

Thank you for your time!

Quantity doesn't equal credibility. Yes, there are real conspiracies out there, but those are the ones the conspiracy nuts tend to not want to believe for some reason. (such as the conspiracy by Al Qaeda to simultaneously attack the World Trade Center and the Pentagon)

Ah, now I understand, you have conspiracy on the brain and since some online video conspiracists are believable, all must be, so therefore rather than doing any research yourself, you're going to allow your mushy brain to believe the HIV conspiracy.

I've no doubt the drug companies are out to maximize their profits. But, when it comes to the HIV/AIDS link, I have no doubt whatsoever. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to deny it. Too much solid research has gone into it and too many people have died. At the same time, since HAART was introduced, the death rate amongst those taking HAART has plummeted. You can't have it both ways.