A crossdresser in the ladies washroom??

At a cafe I regulary go to it is quite common for the men and women to share bathrooms - each going into the other's.

It's all pretty much all the same stuff going on:

Mostly number 1s
Sometimes number 2s (but why not save that until home unless absolutely necessary)
Hand washing and drying

Have yet to sexual acts or violent acts such as rape.

YMMV

Sure. And one day, I can choose to wear my dress with the green sequins, or my dress with the black sequins. Simple free will is all that's implied.

You just reminded me of the scene in 'Cabaret' where this happens to Michael York.It was certainly disconcerting for him!

Would a man dressed as a woman want to use a urinal? Wouldn't that destroy the illusion for him?

Regardless, I do agree that it would be in most cases be easier for him to use the ladies room, due to the stall culture.

What about the woman with androgynous looks who gets chased out of the women's room, mistaken for a man?

What about the pretty cd who is forced to use the men's room and then sexually assaulted?

Most importantly, I don't think a 'no cd' rule would deter a violent criminal.

Shoot me if I'm wrong but I don't think there is an actual LAW that forbids crossbathrooming?


Wait, then again I'm sure there is one in some stupid backward state.

Ok go ahead and shoot me.

Actually, I mentioned that in the other thread and no one really confirmed it for me. I was also under the impression that it was against the law.

To be honest, the more I read, the more I realize that despite a bit of discomfort for a few people, those who crossdress may benifit from being allowed to use the women's bathroom.

I suppose the question is, can women be ok with the idea of sharing a bathroom with men dressed as women?

Your psychic abilities are on target today. I was thinking about that same scene when I read the OP.

That's what I thought. Not to mention the men's room is not usually a place where you see someone powdering their nose. I wonder which restroom Eddie Izzard uses when he's dressed as a woman?

Jeff,

I offer this from my own personal perspective. When I was in my early 20's, I was a female impersonator/drag queen at a local gay bar (see link below). I had a 28" waist, thin features and more feminine features (long gone are those days ). In the bar, it was no problem to go into the mens room.

A dear friend convinced me to go with him as his "date" for an office dinner party at a nice restuarant. I still don't know what I was thinking at the time. Needless to say, while it was a choice for me to be in drag (not the feeling of being compeled like TVs or thrill like CDs), I felt obligated to use the women's restroom. First, because of my appearance, but second (and most importantly) for fear of what would happen to me in the mens room. The chance of being assualted in the mens room is a much greater risk.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/g/i/gis_man/images/drag_bw.gif

In the other thread I detailed a situation where this happened to me. I was run out on a rail from the ladies' room, and felt rather uncomfortable in the men's room. As I said there, unixsex or family bathrooms would make these situations much easier.

I don't think it's a law so much as an accepted courtesy that mens' rooms are only for men and ladies' rooms are only for women. I have no problem with a trans/cd man dressed as a woman coming into the ladies room. No one is going to question, give bad looks, or anything except let him/her go about their bathroom business. In a mens' room, it would cause much more commotion.

Like I said, my vote is for a unisex bathroom in general as an option for everyone, but if that's not available, I think one should use the room they are most comfortable with. It's really up to the individual which gender they primarily identify with, and in the case of a cross dressing male or an androgynous female, I think they have the right to decide where they are most comfortable and what's most appropraite for the situation they are in.

In the case of sexual predation, I don't really see how that relates to this issue. A predator will do things, legal or not, to get what they want. If a man intent on raping dressed as a woman to go into a ladies room, I don't think the legality would bother him, and the ladies wouldn't notice anyway until it was too late because that's his point. To blend in. Saying "no cross dressers" isn't going to stop or make detection of said predator any easier.

I think the hypothetical scenario of the crossdresser-as-rapist was poorly chosen; people can always come up with hypothetical scenarios to justify outlandish things. ("People should have to show picture IDs to enter a grocery store, because otherwise Osama bin Laden could just walk into my local Kroger and bomb me while I'm buying dinner.") Just how many cross-dressing rapists do you know? Furthermore, your argument of being able to sneak into a restroom without incident fully applies to same-sex rapists in their own-gender's bathrooms. Should homosexual rapists be forced to pee in the ladies' room so they won't find any potential victims?

A transgendered educator in New Jersey tells the story of her arrest in Boise, ID, on charges of "indecency", for using the women's restroom. She was post-operative at the time, so no longer had the "penis" you speak of -- except that she was male on her birth certificate, and the state of Idaho considered her to forever and always "be male" on that basis.

Legal issues aside for a moment, we have certain societal expectations about washroom conduct -- from things like "don't poop in the urinals" to "don't stare at your buddy's dick". A male can freely enter a woman's restroom without violating those expectations if, for example, he's under the age of 5 and is accompanied by his mother. I mention this last example, because the cultural expectation of gender separation in restrooms is not 100% rigid, so there is some flexibility (except perhaps in Idaho...).

The issue then is, does a cross-dressing man violate expectations when he enters their restroom? Yes, but he would also violate expectations if he entered the men's restroom. We're not far enough along in our acceptance of transpeople to deal with either possibility in a healthy way.

So, here's the big can of worms: I think his explanation is a cop-out. You say that his decision is based on the fact that he "looks like a woman". I know plenty of folks who are androgynous enough that they "look like" their opposite gender, and they use their own restrooms. There's clearly more to it than just looks. I'm inferring he wants to pass as a woman as well, and entering the men's room would blow his cover.

Thank you for saying what I couldn't quite word, mindseye. This is what I was referring to when I used the word "choice".

I frequent a restaurant where there is a guy who crossdresses. No transgender about it he is a guy who dresses like a woman. He has no feminine characteristics and looks totally absurd. He eats there, I eat there and life goes on. One day I was seated near the restroom and hear comes the crossdresser. So I have to wonder to myself which door will he pick. He goes in the men's room. Shortly thereafter, another man enters the restroom. I am thinking this should be interesting. The normally dressed man comes out first. He is white-faced and his jaw is on the floor. He looked right at me. I being rather inquisitve, asked him "stall or urinal". He said stall and kept on going. My wife and I laughed for about 5 minutes. My wife was very happy that he wasn't in the women's room.

I think the difference is between crossdressing and transgendering. If a man chooses to dress like a woman, he is still a man and should use the men's room. He maybe verbally or physically abused but that definitely doesn't qualify him to be in the women's room. If a person is going through a gender change, then depending on the progress they should choose accordingly.

Unisex restrooms are fine with me. It's not a place I go with sexual intentions. Normally. I think Jeff's topic points up how uncomfortable we can be if we can't immediately assign a person's gender.

In the nudist camp that we {Mr. Ed and I} attend there is only one bathroom. Although it does have one urinal, and several stalls
everyone must share "one" bathroom. No problem!
The only problems with this I have seen,was when a "day person" came
and was walking around with a hard on,passing back and forth in front of the women,like we wanted to see his dick!
I had to pee so bad that I waited for this idiot to leave the bathroom.
When he didn't after 30 minutes, I finally went in.
He was in there jerking off, of course I could hear what he was doing
and that scared me slightly, because no one knew this idiot, and he was engaging in behaviors not tolerated by most nudist campgrounds;overt sexuality, or engaging in public sex acts.
I know this is kind of off topic,but I would'nt usually have a problem using the mens room when the line is too long for the ladies room,so for me Q.I. using the ladies room is convenient for him to not be hassled,but of course he could avoid said hassling by, changing his dress,no?
Either way,should'nt all bathrooms be for all patrons,you will never be able to to weed out the "bad eggs". And despite m/f toilets, horrible crimes still happen to all sorts of people,despite the m/f labeling of these bathrooms!
Cigarbabe