gay people! help me out!

It is just there...like blue eye color...it is just a minority type gene...though not inferior or anything. That what is so crazy...all this religous bull and it is part of the human design and should be celebrated.

Some people prefer to see things in black and white,
and there are those of us who see in color...
Guess what I'm saying is from what I understand there is a continuum
or variety of folks on the planet that vary from 1% to 100% gay and straight...If we were all the same it would be a bit boring eh?
I for one try to appreciate the variety. Not always easy but, hey
we're all in this together, may as well make the best of it.
Maybe that's why we've got rainbows...to remind us that there is
always something we can appreciate about the other.

I knew I was attracted to guys since I was 12 years old. I had no sexual interest in girls. I grew up in a very religious family, and I am very spiritual myself. The last thing I wanted to be was gay. So I tried to make being straight the choice. Had girlfriends in highschool and college because that was what was expected. I got married very young (barely 21) thinking that if I just had sex with a woman somehow these feelings and drive would go away or at least diminish. I had never had sex with a woman until our wedding night. I remember the first year I was married. I kept asking my wife if we could just have sex more often. She didn't understand why I needed sex every day. But it was me trying to get over these feelings. In reality, I had little interest in having sex with her. I just hoped I could change. We had children, and I tried my best to be a good father and a good husband. But I felt dishonest and could not trust anyone's love. I always felt that if they knew these feelings inside of me that their love for me would really not be there. I struggled for many years, and stayed in the marrriage because I felt like I owed it to my children to be there for them. When all but the last one was in college, I came out to my wife. You can imagine how difficult that was for her and for me. My family pretty much flipped out. I thought my dad would never talk to me again. Some of my brothers still don't talk to me. I am not allowed to attend most family functions. It has been about 5 years. Who would choose this? I just wanted to be straight. But that was not the hand that was delt me. And as difficult as this has been on everyone that I love, I am the happiest I have ever been my whole life. The dishonesty I felt is gone. And now when someone loves me, I feel that it is real because they know this deep dark secret that I held so long all by myself. As for my dad, he has had to come to terms with me being gay. It was either that or loose his son forever. I am very close to my kids. They have decided that I am still their dad, and I love them very much. My x wife and I are still close. She is a very kind and loving person. I regret the pain I put her through because society and religion tells a gay man he is evil and will go to hell. The question I used to ask my dad is if society was different from what it is, and the accepted thing to do was to be with a guy, could he somehow change who he is and not be attracted to women?

A matter of choice? Not for this guy. But being gay has made me the person I am. And I don't regret that one bit. It is how God wants me.

indeeeeed.

First, I want to thank the OP for having an open mind, and not just spouting off the usual crap. You have a brain, and use it! Second, all the evidence points to your sexuality as being just a part of who you are--that you don't get to choose it. I spent the first part of my life trying NOT to be gay, fighting it tooth and nail--I didn;t accept myself until I was about 31. I was suicidal over being gay when younger--the religion I grew up with villified homosexuality to the nth degree--still does. They accept now that it isn;t a choice, but as one leader said, even after they admitted it wasn;t a choice, that they were condemned for all eternity, and that it would have been better if they had never been born. They consider murder, if you pinned them on it, to be less of a sin than homosexuality. THis is the enviroment I was under when younger. I always wanted to be a father---it is the one regret I have of being gay. I know there are ways for gay men to have children, but when I was at the appropriate age for being a father, those choices resulted in hurting the child in some way--by living a lie, by the child being ostricized, something. And I love children too much to ever do that to them. I will be totally alone when I am old and feeble. I will live alone, and die alone. I will never feel really a part of society. No, being gay isn't a choice, because if it was, I would be married with a family, and be watching my kids going off to college by now. I would be able to hold the hand of my wife in public, and even kiss her almost anywhere in the world. I would be able to talk about my personal life at work without worrying that it was sickneing someone. I am gay, and I accept it. I have had some insight, and some experience, that I wouldn;t have had if I had been straight. But to me, the costs have been very high. My father was a homophobe, so he never knew before he died. My mother told me "Aids is God's punishment for homosexuals" when I tried coming out to her. Now, if any of you who feel it is still a choice, can tell me what part of my life has ANY benefit of choosing to be gay, I will kiss your furry ass.

Cash is nice. :)

You beat me to it! Perhaps you could even add a bit of an angle, and argue that if homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality - and any of your friends who argue that it is a choice, could also choose to be homosexual. Ask one of them, point blank: are you saying you could choose to be attracted to the same gender, or do you just have that attraction without making a choice? Also, choosing one's actions has nothing to do with the issue. Using that argument, until one actually has sexual intercourse, there is no orientation. If a girl "chooses" to remain a virgin until she marries, does that mean that she is not "straight" until her husband sticks his cock in?

You beat me to it, also.

I agree with your points, BD, but I think your choice of words tends to perpetuate the notion that it's a choice. For me, it isn't really a preference as much as it is a state of being. I've tried to come up with better terminology, but I can't. "Orientation" is the closest I can think of.

Interesting topic. I don't think you can definitively argue that homosexuality is 'pure genetics' any more than you can argue that it is 'pure choice'. Both arguments fail to address the full range of behaviour that is normative for humans. The answer is likely somewhere in between to two extremes and more than likely is different with each individual.

But of course, this never satisfies the fanatics that have invested so much into one view or the other (usually for political or religious motives).

Indeed, I'm always amazed that so many people stake so much of themselves into championing one or the other of this false dichotomy. That the dichotomy is false should be obvious to any serious person who honestly examines their own mind. The false dichotomy serves political motives, not human science and not human happiness.

Sexual preference is just that - a preference, not a law, duty or an order. Preferences are usually quite flexible.

For example, I'm definitely homosexual, but if I had to choose between some fat ugly hairy old man and cute young woman, I'd take the girl.

Your statement uses the term "design" which by definition suggests a 'designer' (which is always a codeword for God the Creator).

Your 'state of being' is probably closer than 'orientation' . I agree, the actual terminology makes it difficult to get the point across accurately. Any of the 'Human Thesaurus" types that roam these parts are welcome to help out in the word search.

One additional point I'd like to add is that I personally like the 'negative' aspects of homosexuality. The fact that it is considered deviant, abnormal, subversive, dangerous and wierd is part of what attracts me to it.

Without those elements, I probably wouldn't have bothered to 'commit' to the lifestyle - I would have just stayed on the bus and gotten married to some girl instead.

I'm not saying homosexuality is purely a choice, nor is it something one is just born to be. It is a complex combination of the two. I've had sexual attractions to a wide variety of people, ages and genders over the years. I choose to act on only one set of those attractions. That is a choice.

Brave post Luke... brave and honest. I think it is fantastic that you know that about yourself and can stand up and say that.

I have may certain lifestyle choices as well - mine invlove monogamy (to a man) and therefore a hetro lifestyle. And yes- I would say I chose to be straight. I spent a few years messing around with girls and guys and chose to do the nuclear family lifestyle thing - it was what I wanted.

I do disagree on the idea that sexuality is something you are born with. I don't believe there is a gay gene - that may be unpopular here but I'm typing this post now and I don't wish to lie. I think sexuality is an inconstant, morphing thing - and is 100% nurture 0% nature. I don't just mean homosexuality is 100% nuture, I mean ALL sexuality. The desire/need to procreate aside, the same can be said for hetrosexuality too. There is nothing in my genetic makeup that would make me like anal sex or bondage - but I do. Those are perferences based on physical sensation and certain psychological factors. I do not think people are born gay (or straight, or bi) - the influences on our sexuality happen from a very early stage and I know many men who say they were never attracted to women and I do not doubt a word of it.

It is the word 'choice' that may be the problem here - just because something is not genetic it does not mean it is a choice either. Do arachnaphobes choose to be afraid of spiders? (a negative example, but not meant to imply any negativity on to homosexuality) Would you say arachnaphobia is genetic? I wouldn't..

OK. Here goes. I would guess that all people on a sliding scale are bi. Some men may be 100% straight in their sexual activities, but still be able to find a good looking man with a great body attractive (not that he would or even want to act on it in any way. Same for a 100% gay man. He could see a pretty and nice bodies woman and find her attractive without really wanting to act on it in any way. And then through the Straight 100% to Gay 100% is everyone else in between.

Technically, I would call myself Gay. I find men very attractive and have on a few occasions induldged in my attractions physically. I know when women are pretty and some situations in straight porn and the few straight sexual encounters I've had I enjoyed greatly. Having said that - my ultimate CHOICE for my life is to be straight. The 'wired' attraction in my brain in for men. But the CHOICE I want for me is to be married with kids. I want a straight life. To me that is the only choice about being gay or not. Your attraction is your attraction - it's hard wired in your brain. I don't beleive it's a choice. BUT, I do belevie sexuality is a condition developed through what is experienced from infancy; I do not beleive a person is born straight or gay.

Anyways - that's my two cents - take it or leave it!!!

I don't think it's either genetic, nor a choice, nor a product of "nurture v. nature." It's just an intrinsic or innate thing... like a personality, or tastes in food or particular scents. It is not a conditioned response.

ManlyBanisters, that may be true for you, but I have known I was gay even before I understood what it was. I must have been born gay, there really is no other explanation. But I don't think it's a genetic thing. Over millenia, a "gay" gene would not be able to support itself in any population. I received pretty much the same "nurture" as the rest of my siblings, but I am the only gay one.

For argument sake, I'll bite.

Ehh...you can't choose what you're initially attracted to. If you're initially attracted to men exclusively, then you're gay. If you have an initial attraction to women, then you're not. While you can choose who you have sex with, you do not choose what your body is initially turned on by.

...But your body is like a pet. As you can train your pet to do certain things, you can train your body to do certain things. To metabolize food at a certain rate. To be able to lift a certain amount of weight. And yes, you can train your body to function sexually with whatever you want to. Which is why you can have men who are gay, but they grow up and have wives and children. Or you can have men, who are only attracted to women, but for whatever compensation (sexual deprivation relief, money, feeling of dominance, etc.) can turn themselves on to function sexually with other men. These are behavioral characteristics.

(Which is why I cannot compare sexuality to that of being born of a race)

One can be taught various behaviors growing up and so you can have external factors that govern your sexual behaviors. Such as you (pablovian) wanting to have a wife and children, but you are really only attracted to men. Just to prevent later heartache, you might want to find a wife who REALLY loves you and you can let her know that.

I do believe that sexuality can be affected by things such as environment, culture, etc. But I also concede that it is also and initially governed by instilled "instincts" from birth as well. It's more along the lines of ADD, Autism, etc...because it can be affected and altered (not "cured") by training new behaviors.

Nothing wrong with it, though. All natural.

That being said, I'll run before I'm crucified...again.