I so just mind fucked myself o_!

unfortunately, whatever people may say. To most people, looks do matter.

PW: The combination of your two posts makes me venture where others might fear to go, but I have some experience with your issues. Obesity has a lot of possible causes, but those with childhood abuse issues often find it a powerful defense when they are still vulnerable. It not only makes you less attractive, but it literally insulates you from feelings that are overwhelming. And food is often a sole source of nuturing in a terrible environment, even if it is self administered, so it is not surprising when one overindulges in it.

As you get older, and able to deal with the issues better, it is not uncommon to experience a massive weight loss only to be caught off-guard when you suddenly start feeling vulnerable again. Being seen as sexually desirable is not comfortable in a world where you have been betrayed.

But you are not the same person you were then. You are able to defend yourself, and able to stop attacks that once happened. Your sexual desirability is not a liability if you think of it as something you can control now. It is possible to say yes or no, where once it wasn't.

Learning to trust people is going to take a long time, most especially learning to trust yourself. You should know, however, that even being able to acknowledge your feelings, and being able to bring them to this board with the courage you have shown, is a sign that you are ready to move ahead.

My advice is to make the friend, and put yourself out there a little more each day, and not worry so much about what he sees in you.

I have seen only a few posts from you, but I have come to admire them already for their courage and power. I wish you the best, and hope the advice given throughout this thread tells you how many people you have pulling for you.

I went from 308 to 185 myself a few years ago. then I got a metabolic disorder and gained most of it back. Now I'm somewhere in between and am losing again. I know what you're going through. Those shallow fucks who wouldn't even notice you before are now accepting you. I got ceaselessly hit on by women who wouldn't have given me the time of day before I lost weight and was more civil to them than they deserved.

Keep working out and taking care of yourself, but you might want to try spending more time in other settings than the gym. Good luck finding new friends. You'll find out who the real ones are if you gain a significant amount of the weight back.

Of course you can make new friends Wolfman. Just allow these persons into your life. Get to know him/them and go out and have fun. True friends and lovers won't leave you just because you gain a little weight.

For most of my childhood and young adulthood, I was fairly skinny: 32 waist and 36 inseam, 6'1", and 150 pounds. Soccer and bicycling helped with the ass and legs, but when I took off my shirt you could count my ribs, and my arms couldn't hold my weight for more than one push-up or chin-up.

Since college I've gained 60 pounds, much of it muscle, and I've begun lifting. Now I look big and stocky, and I'm bearded, so I've morphed from a skinny soccer player with great legs into a "big guy" or a "bear." And that's how a lot of guys see me. It's quite a change.
Same here. Couldn't agree more.

I used to be painfully shy and reserved, especially with people I didn't know well. Lots of people interpreted that as arrogance, particularly when as a defense mechanism I showed off my intelligence. I was skinny and baby-faced, too, so my lack of confidence made me look years younger than I was. People would treat me with little or no respect and find me not very attractive or likeable. With good reason, really, in terms of my personality at that time.

But with the increased weight, the broad shoulders, the beard, and (most importantly) the increased confidence and respect for others, I'm seen differently, particularly in my work wear of coat and tie. I have a deep voice and I have learned to speak my mind (when I know what I'm talking about) with real confidence, not childish arrogance. As a result of all these changes, I come across very differently these days--so differently that many people who grew up with me or went to college with me don't even recognize me until I introduce myself.

This whole process has made me learn to be more patient with people who seem to be flawed in appearance or personality. I remind myself that they could be very different from the way they seem from just a quick glance or brief acquaintance, or that they could "grow out of it" as I and many others have.

But on a much more shallow note, it is nice to be seen as attractive and found likeable. Quite a change from earlier in my life.

NCbear

Thanks for that. So a mosh pit is probably somewhere where you go to slam dance right?

And you don't have to get drunk either, just dance. What a boring teetotaller I was.

Nor hurt anyone. I haven't been a mosher, but from an observer's point of view it is about letting off energy in wild spastic bursts, but not about bloodying noses. (Not that this doesn't happen.)

Back to the thread. I've worked with a couple of very overweight people. It wasn't that I didn't like them or was unfriendly to them, quite the opposite. But I didn't hang out with them very much because I knew that they couldn't do a lot of things that I like to do.

Even a lot of thin people are flabby and not interested in physical forms of recreation, but I'll go to dinner or a movie with anyone.

Mosh pit overview [I Slayer]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3ElsF1APUs

Mosh pit with nice suburban boys who wouldn't think of hurting each other: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngfhMe5buJc

Larger mosh pits usually have a more circular rhythm goin... somebody must have been hurt in this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOAnyTZBykE

I always saw moshing as a bastardization by metal kids of skanking, as the movement of moshing involves flailing limbs... metal kids just added all the aggro pushing/shoving shit. Slamming was of a similar ilk, with punks taking pogoing over the top with the collision/pain factor.

Skanking overview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLPvbvnwETc

Not really hardcore skankin, but this looked like a good time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdJAqEqeaeQ

Word. When I stumbled on this board a few weeks ago, I had been yet again procrastinating on my emotional checks due to other personal business. I came to realize that my mental and sexual health are just as important, and this board comes with the extra added bonus of having the "support" be for real, as evidenced in so many threads by so many salient members. Cheers!

PW, I denied myself the luxury of accepting myself for so long that my own mindfuck has crippled me. I thought that I was unattractive, balding too early, not sexually experienced enough, etc., that I associated all come ons as being some sort of insult. Fortiesfun has nailed it - just be more open. And less judgemental, above all else, of yourself and what you perceive others think of you. I'm trying it myself here and I feel better already.

I've never been overweight, but was considered a severe loser from grammar school all the way through high school. My self esteem was extremely low until I got a grip on what I wanted out of life and who I wanted to be. Coming out of low self esteem is not an easy task, one experiences a need to trust people though they find it difficult to let go of their habitual reactions ('he's nice to me because he wants to trick me';'he's nice to me because he believes I am somebody other than I am and I will never be able to live up to his illusion'). One also experiences difficulty becoming comfortable in a new confident skin, sometimes we start to feel so good about our accomplishments that we overcompensate our past lack of self esteem with overconfidence (egotism). Sometimes people never lose the distrust; sometimes they get stuck in the egotism. But, if this process of finally being comfortable in your skin is continued, there is finally a person who is not only confident, but also compassionate and full of depth because they understand what it means to have been hurt. By all means, this is not something that occurs overnight. I am now 36 and it took me until I was 30 to finally feel TRUELY confident about me after all that practice. It's about becoming a whole person inside and realizing that the outer is merely a reflection of the inner on the somewhat distorted mirror of reality.

A lot of chances have to be taken to break out of low self esteem. Sometimes you have to risk having your ego hurt by accepting an invitation with someone who NEVER would have noticed you before. It's funny, because I think we all end up with ideas about what certain people are like. So and so is popular at the gym and never noticed my skinny ass until I became buff-and now he wants to be my friend. So, you think he's shallow. Maybe, he is. But, then you do go out with him, and you find that somewhere inside he's a little low in confidence and actually has a little more depth than you would have thought. Heck, so and so turned out to be a good person regardless of his being shallow before. I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to judge a person just because they never noticed us before, or because they are shallow on one end. We all have our shallow moments. We all have our deep moments. We all feel a little down on ourselves or even overlyegotistical at times. Confidence is about acceptance of your lack of confidence, weaknesses and strengths, and past mistakes and successes, and acceptance of other people just as they are.

I hope you did go moshing, regardless of the mind fuck. It's good to go out and experience life. It's good to take a risk. It's the only way to learn who you want as friends and who you don't want so close to you (remember, friendship is always your choice).

Take care.

Oops... This was the good time... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN1owIuK2II

And well said, scorpiorising. Hell, it's been all said good

thanks.. but the only three places i really go is WORK, SCHOOL, GYM.. to exspensive to go out anywere in San Diego XD

PW, you've written great posts. It's obvious that you've got serious depth of personality and character.

Stand up tall & proud and smile & talk to people. Enjoy yourself. You'll find quality people.

NCbear

I will just echo a couple of points that have been made.

1. Looks count. Never doubt it.
2. Confidence is sexy.

Now, let me elaborate somewhat.

You said that you were overweight. Okay. But when you yourself were overweight were you attracted to the overweight young women.

Or where you attracted to the height/weight proportionate young woman who dressed stylishly, combed her hair stylishly, wore makeup, and put on perfume.

Or where you equally attracted to the overweight young woman who dressed stylishly, combed her hair stylishly, wore makeup, and put on perfume.

Now all of that is based on looks. And I'm not talking morbidly obese. The women are equal in looks except for the weight issue.

Believe me, there is a reason that people work and/or diet. It's not easy to do all the work it takes to be the most fabulous you that you can be.

There is a reason why men and women admire a person who maintains their body. Looks do count. We all know it.

I find, in general, that women are LOT more forgiving of a man's looks than a man is forgiving of a woman's look. I think it's all about being an "arm charm" for a man. I think that's based on getting a high five from your "friends". I think it's based on being able to say to oneself and to everyone in general, "look who I attracted".

I have a male relative that is probably going to be about 5'8" if he even gets to that height. He a teenager currently. I've told him many, many, times and in many, many ways over the years that confidence IS sexy. Period. End of story.

Now we all know that there is a difference between cocky and confident but, most of the time, he seems to naturally tread that fine line and is a confident teen whom I am sure will grow into a confident young man.

He actually has the opposite problem. He is trying not to be the short, skinny, shy kid. He lift weights, plays football, runs track and plays on the basketball team AND is a B+ student. I believe all of that helps with his confidence level.

I'm happy for him. He is definately having a better time in Jr. High than I did. LOL. My Jr. High School and High School years were a living hell.

Just remember, you've put in the work now it's time to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Hugs and Kisses,

Karmen

You brought up a lot of good points... Personally, i dont really care what a person looks like. my biggest concern this that He/She (Im bisexual) is a good person. I think thats what gets me so bad. I really dont care HOW the person looks, just as long as they are good people.. ya know?

and i hope all works out for you male relitive.. :)