Present and Future Mothers: Circumcise your sons or not? WITH POLL

Is that what it was about for him? Truly? Did he say that?

LOL

I won't exclusively date someone I wouldn't marry, so I like to get deal-breakers out of the way.

Yup. Why waste our precious time?

I think this man I'm into has a beautiful dick, and since he's happy with his circumcision, I'm happy with it too. Still, wouldn't it be great if he'd been able to choose?

He might say he still would have chosen it. But like I said in another post... RIPPING!

WOMEN LEAVE THEIR BODIES FOR THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY TO DO WITH AS THEY WISH ALL THE TIME!!! Just having a baby in a hospital is UNempowering. You give birth against gravity, causing serious unnecessary distress, and then they GRAB the kid away from you, snip his tiny penis and do god knows what else to the kid. I've read and heard sad stories from women about this unbearable time when their newborns are cruelly whisked away from them, in the hands of doctors, nurses, even the fathers before the mothers. It's DISGUSTING.

There is a very long history of the medical community and government abusing women medically. THALIDOMIDE. Nuff said.

That's interesting. Why did you decide to have it done?

That's something I don't understand. Why is it important to a FATHER'S identity for his son to be just like him?

for him and many men, it was a largely unexamined belief. it was just what he expected to happen, and since he's very happy with his own cock, thought it would naturally happen to our son. and yes, creating a child in their own image is a major theme for a lot of guys.

despite how strong some people feel about the subject (and I include myself), some people really just don't give it any thought until they are prompted. because I felt more strongly, I was able to persuade Mr.Sares with little difficulty.

What's so hard to understand, Bette? If a man had his leg amputated after an auto accident, shouldn't his infant son also get an amputation, so he'll "look like daddy?" Or the child of an inter-racial couple... what's wrong with some plastic surgery to change the shape of the nose, or some bleach or dye to make the skin look the same? Of course the child's cock should look just like daddy's. Maybe even some silicone injections so the size will be the same.

I don't agree with piercing babies ears even, let alone cutting part of their penis off. Unless you have a really serious condition requiring you be circ'd I think we're born in the way we were meant to be. I find it curious when parents want their son to look like the (circ) father, when he will, just how he did before he got the end of his penis cut off...

I could never put my baby through that kind of trauma for no reason. If I'd been born a boy and been circ'd, I'd be very unhappy with my parents.

Here's some cartoon responses to this oft asked question:

http://www.stopinfantcircumcision.org/toon.htm

Fathers are often strangely competitive with their sons. Sometimes it comes down to I don't want that little upstart to have anything I don't (or can't) have.

Also, sometimes it is a way of validating what happened to the adult. Many men have a difficult time internalizing that otherwise circumspect and loving parents would subject them to a harmful and unnecessary genital surgery. The parents may have had the child's best interests in mind, but the medical industry did NOT.

Fortunately this is changing in the U.S. As circumcision is now in the single digits in all other English speaking societies, can we be far behind?

If I had to venture an educated guess on this, based on my own personal experience as a man and a son so far in life (yet to be a father to a boy so only speculation), but it would seem that men probably on some level "sniff" the kids to make sure they are "his" figuratively that is... as women are not interested in wasting time with men they don't want to be with for obviouse reasons of there is a window of time when they are able to "get a man, beget children, and get them raised" and waisting time just gets in the way and leads no where... men probably deep down as well, feel that if these are their offspring with will "look/be" like them as well... call it verification of resource expenditure. Since why would a man, who was seeking to pass on his genes (in the way of biological imparatives) seek to subvert his own reproduction for that of another man's with a woman that he then puts time into without the reward of having his children... he woudn't... hence when a man feels his children aren't like him he probably had a hard time relating to his sons... and males need (regardless of what feminists say) father/son bonds...

Today I think it's more a hold over from that kind of thinking that is just in the deep part of our intuitive side and kicks in at timem

On being Circumsized... personally I didn't mind it, didn't suffer from anything that was written above and personally perfer it... I have had great sex all my life, no issues with it and well... I had to kind of look at that list of horrible side effects and think "who made that up" my god, it's lucky I survived unscathed!

Seriously, no guy I know can even recall getting it done... it's like, don't remember... unless they were an adult (which I might add would be horrible, since it would take forever to heal, it would scar and be all horrible... so if your going to do it, do it at birth, if not, forget it, IT IS NOT an option anyone but a crazy man would do in adulthood, my god if a Vasectomy hurts, think about it...YIKE!)

anyway... mine is clean, senstive, cums fine, smells good, looks pretty and all that... never been embarassed in a mens shower or had a girl go "OMG what the hell is that!!" as some un-cut friends have had dating trauma over in HS and later... not to mention the fact they tend to hide it at every turn (locker rooms, and the whole deal... I can't think of anyone that ever really liked the idea of being un-cut, though I have seen guys when I was in the military and growing up and all... they just seemed to be uncomfortable all the time.

Just my two cents...

But for the record I wouldn't wait, either do it or don't, but doing it later... OMG NO... OUCH... readas - minor surgery becomes MAJOR surgery.

If I had to venture an educated guess on this, based on my own personal experience as a man and a son so far in life (yet to be a father to a boy so only speculation), but it would seem that men probably on some level "sniff" the kids to make sure they are "his" figuratively that is... as women are not interested in wasting time with men they don't want to be with for obviouse reasons of there is a window of time when they are able to "get a man, beget children, and get them raised" and waisting time just gets in the way and leads no where... men probably deep down as well, feel that if these are their offspring with will "look/be" like them as well... call it verification of resource expenditure. Since why would a man, who was seeking to pass on his genes (in the way of biological imparatives) seek to subvert his own reproduction for that of another man's with a woman that he then puts time into without the reward of having his children... he woudn't... hence when a man feels his children aren't like him he probably had a hard time relating to his sons... and males need (regardless of what feminists say) father/son bonds...

Today I think it's more a hold over from that kind of thinking that is just in the deep part of our intuitive side and kicks in at timem

On being Circumsized... personally I didn't mind it, didn't suffer from anything that was written above and personally perfer it... I have had great sex all my life, no issues with it and well... I had to kind of look at that list of horrible side effects and think "who made that up" my god, it's lucky I survived unscathed!

Seriously, no guy I know can even recall getting it done... it's like, don't remember... unless they were an adult (which I might add would be horrible, since it would take forever to heal, it would scar and be all horrible... so if your going to do it, do it at birth, if not, forget it, IT IS NOT an option anyone but a crazy man would do in adulthood, my god if a Vasectomy hurts, think about it...YIKE!)

anyway... mine is clean, senstive, cums fine, smells good, looks pretty and all that... never been embarassed in a mens shower or had a girl go "OMG what the hell is that!!" as some un-cut friends have had dating trauma over in HS and later... not to mention the fact they tend to hide it at every turn (locker rooms, and the whole deal... I can't think of anyone that ever really liked the idea of being un-cut, though I have seen guys when I was in the military and growing up and all... they just seemed to be uncomfortable all the time.

Just my two cents...

But for the record I wouldn't wait, either do it or don't, but doing it later... OMG NO... OUCH... readas - minor surgery becomes MAJOR surgery.

Classic minimization. You seem like a nice guy, but you're just trying to make yourself feel better. Not knowing better is not the same as saying there is no difference. Times change. Most places the cut guy is a very small minority.

You point out that no normal guy would willingly do this to himself, but try to make some point about doing it early. You gloss over that no infant has EVER chosen circumcision.

Circumcision is a sick response to a healthy baby. Just say no to genital cutting of any kind. All body parts need life long care. But we need them. Isn't it a bit sad what you don't know about a normal part of your anatomy?

Women in childbirth need protection from genital cutting too. You're a hero in my book Mum.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. It disturbs me that parents (not just dads) are competitive with their kids. My mother was competitve with me when I was a child and it has been extremely damaging. Still...it had nothing to do with my genitalia!

Myspacers against circumcision might want to add as a friend or subscribe to blog:

http://www.myspace.com/not_sircumsized

He posted this on his blog, which I thought would be of interest to others here:

Pain From Circumcision Being Treated More Seriously By Doctors
Main Category: Pain / Anesthetics News
Article Date: 22 Jul 2006 - 8:00am (PDT)

One of the first things most little boys in the U.S. experience is something they'll never remember - circumcision - but that doesn't mean it isn't a painful experience. The debate over whether infants feel pain has ended, and the positive conclusion is catching up with obstetrical, pediatric and family physician training programs, 97 percent of which now learn effective pain relief techniques for circumcision. Just 10 years ago, only 71 percent learned how to ease pain during the brief surgical procedure.

"This is a large leap ahead in how physicians are trained to perform circumcisions, which at 1 million annually, is the most common surgical procedure," said Daniel Yawman, M.D., M.P.H., a pediatrician at Golisano Children's Hospital at Strong and Rochester General Hospital. Yawman, also a clinical instructor at the University of Rochester Medical Center, is the author of a study on the subject in Ambulatory Pediatrics today. "There is no reason a newborn should have to endure the pain of circumcision without a local or topical anesthetic."

Based upon the overwhelming evidence of the safety and benefit of effective analgesia, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, and the American Academy of Pediatrics released recommendations since 1999 calling for the universal use of local or topical anesthetics to provide pain relief for neonatal circumcision.

A previous study on circumcision training techniques, which shared author Cynthia Howard, M.D., M.P.H., associate professor of pediatrics at the University of Rochester Medical Center and pediatric director of the mother-baby unit at Rochester General Hospital, was published in 1998, prior to the new pain relief recommendations.

The two most effective and most commonly used pain relief techniques are the dorsal penile nerve block and the subcutaneous ring block. Both techniques involve the injection of the painkiller lidocaine at the base of the penis which decreases pain sensation prior to circumcision. Topical anesthetic creams are less effective but they are safe and do provide some pain relief. Any of these techniques can be used in combination with the Mogen clamp, the Gomco clamp and the Pastibell method, the three most common surgical methods of circumcision.

"The decision whether or not to have their baby boy circumcised is a decision that parents must make after weighing the risks and benefits of the procedure. If parents decide that they would like to have their baby boy circumcised, it is the duty of the physician to make the procedure as painless as possible," Yawman said. "For more than 100 years, physicians have been talking about using pain relief during circumcision, and it's encouraging that the next generation of doctors is learning how to make circumcision more comfortable for their patients."

www.medicalnewstoday.com

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Pain relief for neonatal circumcision (Cochrane Review)

ABSTRACT

A substantive amendment to this systematic review was last made on 01 May 2004. Cochrane reviews are regularly checked and updated if necessary.
Background: Circumcision is a painful procedure that many newborn males undergo in the first few days after birth. Interventions are available to reduce pain at circumcision; however, many newborns are circumcised without pain management.
Objectives: The objective of this review was to assess the effectiveness and safety of interventions for reducing pain at neonatal circumcision.
Search strategy: We searched Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials (CENTRAL, The Cochrane Library, Issue 2, 2004), MEDLINE (1966 - April 2004), EMBASE (1988 - 2004 week 19), CINAHL (1982 - May week 1 2004), Dissertation Abstracts (1986 - May 2004), Proceedings of the World Congress on Pain (1993 - 1999), and reference lists of articles. Language restrictions were not imposed.
Selection criteria: Randomised controlled trials comparing pain interventions with placebo or no treatment or comparing two active pain interventions in male term or preterm infants undergoing circumcision.
Data collection and analysis: Two independent reviewers assessed trial quality and extracted data. Ten authors were contacted for additional information. Adverse effects information was obtained from the trial reports. For meta-analysis, data on a continuous scale were reported as weighted mean difference (WMD) or, when the units were not compatible, as standardized mean difference.
Main results: Thirty-five trials involving 1,997 newborns were included. Thirty-three trials enrolled healthy, full term neonates, and two enrolled infants born preterm.Fourteen trials involving 592 newborns compared dorsal penile nerve block (DPNB) with placebo or no treatment. Compared to placebo/no treatment, DPNB demonstrated significantly lower heart rate [WMD -35 bpm, 95% CI -41 to -30], decreased time crying [WMD -54 %, 95% CI -64 to -44], and increased oxygen saturation [WMD 3.7 %, 95% CI 2.7 to 3.7]. Six trials involving 200 newborns compared eutectic mixture of analgesics (EMLA) with placebo. EMLA demonstrated significantly lower facial action scores [WMD -46.5, 95% CI -80.4 to -12.6], decreased time crying [WMD - 15.2 %, 95% CI -21 to -9.3] and lower heart rate [WMD -15 bpm, 95% CI -19 to -10]. DPNB, compared with EMLA in three trials involving 139 newborns (133 of whom were included in the analysis), demonstrated significantly lower heart rate [WMD -17 bpm, 95% CI -23 to -11] and pain scores. When compared with sucrose in two trials involving 127 newborns, DPNB demonstrated less time crying [MD -166 s, 95% CI -211 to -121], and lower heart rate [WMD -27 bpm, 95% CI -33 to -20]. Results obtained for trials comparing oral sucrose and oral analgesics to placebo, and trials of environmental modification were either inconsistent or were not significantly different.Adverse effects included gagging, choking, and emesis in placebo/untreated groups. Minor bleeding, swelling and hematoma were reported with DPNB. Erythema and mild skin pallor were observed with the use of EMLA. Methaemoglobin levels were evaluated in two trials of EMLA, and results were within normal limits.
Authors' conclusions: DPNB was the most frequently studied intervention and was the most effective for circumcision pain. Compared to placebo, EMLA was also effective, but was not as effective as DPNB. Both interventions appear to be safe for use in newborns. None of the studied interventions completely eliminated the pain response to circumcision.
Citation: Brady-Fryer B, Wiebe N, Lander JA. Pain relief for neonatal circumcision. The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2004, Issue 3. Art. No.: CD004217. DOI: 10.1002/14651858.CD004217.