Well lookee what the Catholics are doin' now

Apparently not, since you obviously don't know anything about it beyond rumour.

Apparently not, since you obviously don't know anything about it beyond rumour.
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Christianity is an organized religion. It is made up of people. Any organization with people involved is going to have some wrong interpretations, some fake people who are involved for the wrong reasons and greed, and sometime corruption. But let's look at the overarching effect of Christianity on the world compared to the other religions.

It is in the Christian dominated societies where women have rights, people have freedoms, and generally there is economic properity compared to the rest of the world. Sure there are exceptions. But that is generally true. The countries that have been officially atheists have had practically no personal freedoms and many have been tortured and killed. The Muslim world has a horrible track record when it comes to the rights of women. How long would a gay guy or lesbian last in most fundamental Muslim countries?

In many ways Buddhists have a good track record in personal rights and that is good. And I know that there are some good Muslims as well as Jews.

This is about Catholicism. Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. It is the main trunk from which all the mainline Protestant denominations trace their lineage to. I consider Jacinto to be a Christian brother even though we have never met. He knows Jesus and I know Jesus. That makes us brothers in the eyes of God.

Do I agree with every thing the Catholic Church does and every position of the Catholic Church? No. Neither do I agree with every thing the United Methodist Church does and every position it takes. I work in a Methodist Church and am happy there. The Catholic Church in mh town has all the musicians they need right now.

But I find a certain calm in every Catholic Church I have been in. And every priest, monk or nun I have personally met has been very kind and very modest and so sincere. I know I haven't met all of them, not in a church with over one billion members, but I can only go on who and what I have seen.

Ask yourself. Is the world today better off or worse off because of Christianity, particularly the Roman Catholic Church. The answer is quite stunning in those early years. Without the orgnization and structure of the Catholic Church, nearly every thing we know about ancient Greece and Rome would have been lost. And without the leadership of the Catholic Church for its first thousand years of existance, it, the Roman Catholic Church was the stabilizing force in Europe and much of the time the only organization keeping order.

Without the Roman Catholic Church and later the Protestant Churches that grew out of it, Europe very well, might not have ever reached the level of civilization and prosperity that Europe and also America enjoy.

All of Western Civilization owes a debt of gratitute to the almost 2000 year history of the Roman Catholic Church. And without the Roman Catholic Church, Christianity in any form probably would not have survived and prospered in Europe. So those of us that aren't members of the Roman Catholic Church need to remember that without the Catholic Church we wouldn't have a church either.

As for me I believe in "the apostolic and holy catholic church." It transcends earthly organizations. All Christians are members on one church spiritually. The word apostolic means going back to the apostles and the word catholic means universal. If you believe in the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed, then you are basically catholic with a small c. The Roman Church is simply the the western root of all churches that affirm those creeds. The Orthodox Church is the eastern root of the Christian faith.

As for Jacinto, he appears to be a wonderful person, outstanding teacher and has a wonderful sense of life and his relationship to God. And Jacinto appears to be more than willing to engage in dialogue with others.

Dr. Rock, I'm afraid that you quite often aren't willing to even listen to the other side. Engaging in dialogue with someone that you don't presently agree with seems to be a foreign concept to you. That is sad. You may be 100 percent right about everything. I'm willing to concede that is possible I might be wrong. I have faith, which is believing in something in which you can't see, that the God I worship which is the same God that Jacinto worships is in fact real and when he is finished with his creation sometime in the future, everything will be perfect and all imperfections will be made whole.

I also believe in a merciful God who loves all his children including those who aren't Christians. I passioinately believe all that means Buddhists, Jews, Mustlims, non believers, and Christians and all of human kind are invited into God's house which Christians refer to as heaven. I don't know about those who tell God they don't want to enter the pearly gates. I jsut know that EVERYONE is invited and none are turned away who wish to live with Father God in heaven.

There has been much bashing of Catholics lately. All of you who are Roman Catholic I consider you brothers and sisters in the body and church of God. May the "little problems" that concern some of you go away and the church stay on its historic path that leads to glory in heaven.

Apparently not, since you obviously don't know anything about it beyond rumour.
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you seem to be disregarding observation. I don't need to know about the internal structures and politics of the catholic church to see that is wrong, any more than I need to contract full-blown smallpox to know that it's fatal.

It is impossible for edicts that come down from the highest position NOT to taint the movement, in any given situation. Regardless of any personal opinion I may have, I was dismayed to see THIS particular man appointed Pope, because I felt he would take the movement of Catholicism backward rather than forward, and it seems to be the case. No doubt there are plenty of practising Catholics who do not support this move, but I doubt they will publicly slam him for doing it, which is a shame. He was supposed to be a lame-duck Pope, I wish he would just sit down and shut up.

you seem to be disregarding observation. I don't need to know about the internal structures and politics of the catholic church to see that is wrong, any more than I need to contract full-blown smallpox to know that it's fatal.
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you do need to know when something is the actual teachings of the church and when its the actions of a group within catholism who have voice due to who is Pope, this is very much the later, and even the Pope isn't daft enough to make this Papal law which tells you everything, they want to do this by the side door.

This is not what the Church teaches in relation to homsexuality so its very easy for Catholics like myself to voice our dismay at how certain people including this Pope are behaving in relation to this issue. This is not a canon law or Catholic dogma, this is stupid and offensive idea that causes anger, and I disagree Madame_Zora, its actually actions like this that make people voice their opinion, unfortunatly it will not be given the press attention when people do so, but at a local level I'm sure, I and alot of people will tell their priest how they feel about this and alot of them will feel the same way.

THAT's the thing that pisses me off about this. Not all homosexuals are pedophiles and not all pedophiles are homosexual. Why do some people have a single tracked mind when it comes to this? One of my good friends just had a brother that came out of the closet. Now her husband is leary of having that brother watch their kids when he had no problem with it before.

THAT's the thing that pisses me off about this. Not all homosexuals are pedophiles and not all pedophiles are homosexual. Why do some people have a single tracked mind when it comes to this? One of my good friends just had a brother that came out of the closet. Now her husband is leary of having that brother watch their kids when he had no problem with it before.
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Sounds terrible to say it, but many people are simply thicko's and tend to believe nonsense of any sort about other humans, instead of engaging their brains.

Welcome to politically based christianity in America, circa 2005. Or should that read "christian based politics?"



THAT should get me flamed, banned or killed.

?? so the pope doesn't represent the catholic church now? if catholics don't believe what the pope says, why don't they get rid of him? you're arguing in circles!

And why doesn't England get rid of the queen if she doesn't rule the land or make the laws?

Edit: I DO realize that the Pope has more say so in the Catholic religion than the Queen does over England, but my point was that not every grand position makes 100% sense.

Not all the Xian-dominated countries are so good for women. I mean, Botswana? South Africa?

And the U.S. is of course STILL considered a rape-prone society.

In the same way that the president doesn't represent the whole population of the US. The Church is composed of individuals, all possessed of a free will and a conscience. The modern Catholic Church doesn't encourage blindly following any one leader, including the Pope. We have minds and are expected to use them.

In the same way that the president doesn't represent the whole population of the US. The Church is composed of individuals, all possessed of a free will and a conscience. The modern Catholic Church doesn't encourage blindly following any one leader, including the Pope. We have minds and are expected to use them.
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Oh its a laugh fest tonite. thanks karate kid! you sound like a ctholic pirest a little karate kid old man who hides behind the karate kid and is really a lame-azz cathlic preirst. Is your karate kid banada reallya pope hat?

ha ha! now hes a expert on cathlic stuff and a biritsh teacher. nice one karate kid high five babe

Oh its a laugh fest tonite. thanks karate kid! you sound like a ctholic pirest a little karate kid old man who hides behind the karate kid and is really a lame-azz cathlic preirst. Is your karate kid banada reallya pope hat?

ha ha! now hes a expert on cathlic stuff and a biritsh teacher. nice one karate kid high five babe
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Okay, I can't resist-

If you're going to insult someone at least vary your language and learn to spell! "Catholic" and "priest" really aren't that difficult. Thanks, troll- I needed that.

beats me. in practical terms, probably because without the tourist revenue the UK would be just another third-world toilet. I don't think that justifies the idea of a monarchy either, but as you will have noticed, nobody really listens to me :eyes:

Quote:

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@Sep 19 2005, 02:55 AM <!--QuoteBegin-Dr Rock

In the same way that the president doesn't represent the whole population of the US.

Quoted post

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the US at least makes the pretense that its president is endorsed by a majority of its population, though. not that I believe "electoral" government is any less unacceptable than organized religion, but that's a whole other issue.