aesthetics

Maybe so. But Charels is not exactly the most handsome man in the world. And Camilia isn't really beautiful. Years ago, I could figure out why Charles would want to be with Camilia when he had Diana.

So, there is a lot more than looks. To your question about the children. William and Harry got their looks from their mother. It was about time that the royal family found some good looking genes to add to their pool collection. Several of the royal family are simply not good looking at all. I don't know what Camilia's ex looked like.

You made a very good point. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

the difference is that when my friends die, I don't sit on every radio and TV channel for weeks on end giving a running commentary of the indignity of their final moments, my morbid fascination with their corpse, or the arrangements for their funeral.

people die - old men especially. I can assure you that I'm only too well-acquainted with death, and probably better acquainted with some of the more harrowing forms it can take than just about anyone else here, so please don't try to tell me about loss and horror - I could relate memories of my own that would give YOU nightmares, never mind myself. in comparison to some of the shit I've seen and been caught up in, a guy dying of old age in a hospital bed is not a big deal. I certainly don't need to be bombarded 24/7 with the news and its supposed implications.

That is the media for you. Certainly not the Pope. He couldn't even talk. And the media is not going to change. When celebreties have any medical procedure done no matter how embarassing it is or private, the media thinks they have automatic access to it.

I remember a bad wreck and the wreck scene was roped off. The public could not go inside the roped area. Not even family, friends , the injured person's pastors, no not any. But before the ambulance got there, there was the media flashing their little card and with camera in hand took pictures for ALL to see what it was the police were trying to keep the bystanders from seeing. The victims were in a bad state of dress due to the accident as in would be considered indecent down at the local store. But there they were on the front page. Thanks to the media.

So I understand your aggrevation about it, I think it is misplaced. Blame the media not the pope. And yes, if more of us would turn it off and instead of on the media would change, But people won't change. They love stuff like this. They want all the particulars. I'm surprised the Vatican was able to keep as much information from the media as they did. During the entire time of the Pope's illness, the Vatican has done all they could do to hide from the media the pope's condition.

And I don't doubt you must have been through a lot. You sound very cynical, very harden by life and bitter at life. I don't sense much humor and enjoyment coming from you. I may be totally wrong. I am just going by what I sense from your posts.

I'm not BLAMING the pope himself; I'm just pointing out that I'll probably be physically sick if I hear one more detail of his death or funeral arrangements. I just don't get it - did someone expect him NOT to die or something? how old was the guy, like 80? and he'd been pope for at least 20 years, which can't exactly have been easy on his health in itself.

and another thing: I can't speak for everyone, but usually if I want to mourn then I do it alone and quietly. blaring it all over the media in endlessly repetitive, nauseating pseudo-sympathy is not only annoying to the rest of us but disrespectful to the man himself. I can't imagine that anyone, regardless of their faith or their personal relationship to the pope, wants to hear quarter-hourly updates on the preparations for his internment or whatever.

BlondBoy_16: I agree with dr.Rock the world is getting increasingly stupid by the second,the thing which finally convinced me that the world had finally lost the plot was the sight of millions of people qeuing up to take photos of a dead guy in a stupid hat and big boots.
And then the next day queing up to watch some fucking ugly woman marry a parsitic moron and saying things like 'ohhhhh isnt it wonderful'.

LargerThanTheAverageBear: I guess you'd better prepare yourself to be disappointed, then.
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I was guessing "minimal exposure"

hehe. I had a couple of guesses, but I gotta admit that "fucking pope" wasn't one of them. some folks need to take things less seriously, I think.

Well, at least it would be nice is we could get over ourselves and our stupid expectations about life and death. A solemn remembrance of his life would be plenty appropriate, but the shock, trauma and disbelief that the world is experiencing is just stupid beyond measure! When an old sick guy dies, it's completely to be expected, but not in our society!

I can't tell you how many times I had to counsel families who'd had a 97 year old athsmatic uncle with severe brain damamge and a tracheotomy that when the poor guy died, the relations would go into shock and say "we just never expected that!" Well, why the hell not? Wasn't it obvious? Why do people feel they're deserving of sympathy just because they're too ignorant to face the reality that life has a beginning and end. Yes, it's sad when someone you respect dies and is no longer a part of your life, but to get whacko over it and treat it like your brother died is insane. I dislike the media circus that seems to say it's okay to exploit our lack of sensibility wrt death because they can sell more papers, commercial spots during the news and time on the radio. Keep us weak and stupid, keep us "tuned in". Most every emotion we feel about this has been cleverly planned my marketing agents behind the scenes. Please guys, let's not fall for it. Don't let the media be the Pope's largest beneficiary.

I really don't think it is fair to say that millions of people queued up to see a random dead man in a hat. That is seriously unfair and pathetic. I pitty the fact that you cannot comprehend what this man meant to an awful lot of people. Pope John Paul II was a great man, admittedly he has done some questionable things during his palpacy, but he has also done some amazing things. As the head of a religion many people feel his loss personally. He was a good man and I think that it is a shame that he is being so disrespected in such a way.


<!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Apr 12 2005, 09:49 AM
Well, at least it would be nice is we could get over ourselves and our stupid expectations about life and death. A solemn remembrance of his life would be plenty appropriate, but the shock, trauma and disbelief that the world is experiencing is just stupid beyond measure! When an old sick guy dies, it's completely to be expected, but not in our society!

I can't tell you how many times I had to counsel families who'd had a 97 year old athsmatic uncle with severe brain damamge and a tracheotomy that when the poor guy died, the relations would go into shock and say "we just never expected that!" Well, why the hell not? Wasn't it obvious? Why do people feel they're deserving of sympathy just because they're too ignorant to face the reality that life has a beginning and end. Yes, it's sad when someone you respect dies and is no longer a part of your life, but to get whacko over it and treat it like your brother died is insane. I dislike the media circus that seems to say it's okay to exploit our lack of sensibility wrt death because they can sell more papers, commercial spots during the news and time on the radio. Keep us weak and stupid, keep us "tuned in". Most every emotion we feel about this has been cleverly planned my marketing agents behind the scenes. Please guys, let's not fall for it. Don't let the media be the Pope's largest beneficiary.

Quoted post

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I do not know what the media was like in the States so I cannot really comment on that. I feel that the BBC handled the whole thing very well, and were extremely respectful. I honestly don't feel that people's emotions were planned by the media. I suppose that I cannot be considered unbiased as I come from a largely catholic family, although being an atheist myself, i can appreciate what the Pope's loss means to a lot of people.

I admit that the large media coverage of the Pope's decline, lying in state and funeral may have been miscontrued as being overly invaisive and a direct result of the Big Brother mind set, where everything has to be seen 24hrs a day. However, for many people being able to witness the events gave them a level of closure that they needed that they wouldn't have been able to receive from just reading the paper.

Wow, pretty amazing where this post has gone so far...from beauty to the pope's death. I'm not sure if my original question was interesting enough for people to respond to. :D

As far as the pope goes, I didn't know him & definitely have a hard time trying to understand why "media stars" get all this attention, other than their own self-promotion, including Mr. John Paul. I'm not sure I've ever cared about a film personality or any other sort of public person. It seems a little shallow to me.

Thanx for all the responses so far. They've been interesting for sure.

I pity anyone with so little self-respect that they'd go apeshit over his death.

I pity anyone with so little self-respect that they'd go apeshit over his death.
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I think many people do have the right to go "apeshit". He was the head of their religion, he meant a lot to them.

I pity anyone with so little self-respect that they'd go apeshit over his death.
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Dr. Rock,

I think that different people grieve and deal with unpleasant things in different ways. And I doubt that we can change ourselves that much.

You would have done well in dealing with death in the 19th century. No embalming. Hot day. So I know that when my great grandmother died at a very early age in the middle of the summer, my great grandfather made a hasty casket, she was put in the ground right then and then he took his children including my grandfather all very young children a days ride in a wagon to tell my great grandmothers parents. I doubt there was an obituary. There may have been some grave side service. I'm not even sure of that. And he left the children for the grandparents to raise. That is all I know about the story.

You are a "well lets bury our friend." Say a few words and move on. The person is dead. We can't bring him back. And constantly talking about our friend is emotionaly draining on you.

But there are other people who the more they talk about it the better they feel They need to share and share and share.

We aren't all the same.

So, you have an advantage and you took it. Turn off the media.

One of the things that I thought was so wonderful was when we went to cable with all those many stations. Well, one night they all have a baseball game, and when the Pope died, they all caried the story.

There is a real need for the media to let different stations carry different things. Yes, there was a need for all the media coverage of the Pope's viewing and service. But as you know EVERY station covered it. No matter which station you turned to if it was a general news station, the very same identical broadcast, only the commentators were different.

So I am sure that many people as they surfed the TV and found that no matter which news station or network station they turned to it was the very same thing were a little aggrevated. I have been before when the event being covered just wasn't something I wanted to see and I surfed and finally turned the TV off because I couldn't find anything on but that lead news story which I didn't want to see.

BOTTOM LINE: There needs to be balance and variety in news coverage to fit the needs of all, not every station should cater to the needs of a particular group just because it is the major news story that day. The fact that the Pope's funeral was the largest in history is a news item and should be covered but not by all 30 plus channels on the TV 24/7and let's not even talk about radio.

One observation: It has really helped all of us express ourselves here and I am amazed how we can start out on opposite sides and come to a middle understanding that we all can at least live with. Shame the word leaders don't operate like the LPSG. Maybe we would have less war and more peace.

Dr. Rock,

I think that different people grieve and deal with unpleasant things in different ways. And I doubt that we can change ourselves that much.

You would have done well in dealing with death in the 19th century. No embalming. Hot day. So I know that when my great grandmother died at a very early age in the middle of the summer, my great grandfather made a hasty casket, she was put in the ground right then and then he took his children including my grandfather all very young children a days ride in a wagon to tell my great grandmothers parents. I doubt there was an obituary. There may have been some grave side service. I'm not even sure of that. And he left the children for the grandparents to raise. That is all I know about the story.

You are a "well lets bury our friend." Say a few words and move on. The person is dead. We can't bring him back. And constantly talking about our friend is emotionaly draining on you.

But there are other people who the more they talk about it the better they feel They need to share and share and share.

We aren't all the same.

So, you have an advantage and you took it. Turn off the media.

One of the things that I thought was so wonderful was when we went to cable with all those many stations. Well, one night they all have a baseball game, and when the Pope died, they all caried the story.

There is a real need for the media to let different stations carry different things. Yes, there was a need for all the media coverage of the Pope's viewing and service. But as you know EVERY station covered it. No matter which station you turned to if it was a general news station, the very same identical broadcast, only the commentators were different.

So I am sure that many people as they surfed the TV and found that no matter which news station or network station they turned to it was the very same thing were a little aggrevated. I have been before when the event being covered just wasn't something I wanted to see and I surfed and finally turned the TV off because I couldn't find anything on but that lead news story which I didn't want to see.

BOTTOM LINE: There needs to be balance and variety in news coverage to fit the needs of all, not every station should cater to the needs of a particular group just because it is the major news story that day. The fact that the Pope's funeral was the largest in history is a news item and should be covered but not by all 30 plus channels on the TV 24/7and let's not even talk about radio.

One observation: It has really helped all of us express ourselves here and I am amazed how we can start out on opposite sides and come to a middle understanding that we all can at least live with. Shame the word leaders don't operate like the LPSG. Maybe we would have less war and more peace.
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That was beautifully put Freddie, much better then I could do it.

Re the world leaders thing. I think that the reason that there is so much war is because world leaders, *cough* Bush *cough*, need war to over compensate for something, and therefore they wouldn't join LPSG, if you know what I mean ;)

Hummm... had to check out that stuff on the net, but I agree with you, Leung... she's good-looking in a earthy way, nothing wrong with that. And some older photos of her show she's been a really good looking woman then too.

Bruce