I AM TAKING A BREAK

NelsonMuntz84: Mary isn't a saint, and you dont pray to saints as said before, you may say a prayer asking a saint to look over you and interced with God,but there is a huge difference, as said before, Catholics only pray to 1 God.

I have to give y'all a ton of credit! While I personally don't agree with what HungThick is doing, I do respect his decision and his right to lead his life as he pleases. It's great to see most everyone give him support, whether they agree with him or not.

I wish the gay marriage debate was as civil and as well-informed as this!

This announcement has prompted a very interesting and positive discussion.

I agree, everyone has to do what is right for them, even if it is different from what someone else chooses.

Again, LPSG is presenting a caring and positive point of view toward, despite being a sexual oriented site. I think that is fantastic, and not surprising, considering the group we have gathered here over the years.


*oh, and yes, hungbig, the responses you got are correct.
Those are prayers asking for someone to intercede...rather than believing that
that person is God...The clue in the prayer you mention comes at the end "pray for us sinners"...it asks Mary to pray, rather than praying to *her* as if she was God. I know, it is somewhat confusing.

hung_big: The fact still remains, you are praying TO saints, asking them to pray for you, or watch over you. You are still praying to them, regardless of what you are asking them to do...

call me a judgmental asshole, but I find it very hard to respect someone who clearly places their respect for "god" before their respect for me and other human beings.

[quote=hung_big,Mar 17 2005, 12:18 AM]
Chris,

First of all, I am not Roman Catholic, but I have great admiration for them. The majority of the world's Christians are Roman Catholic. As I understand it, they don't pray to saints. Rather they ask the saints to pray for them. There is a difference.

Second I belong to a mainline Protestant denomination. I don't believe it is a sin to be gay or bi. It is a sin to abuse your sexual being if you allow it to destroy you. Whether you are sinning depends on the relationship and how it is working.

I think DoubleMeatWhopper is a great guy and a good Chrsitian. I respect him more than anyone here on this board. He is one of the finest Christians I have been around. God made him gay. His only other choice is to be celibate.

Freddie

NelsonMuntz84: Nothing wrong with you having your opinions, after all he's getting credit for following his own believes. I'm a practicing Roman Catholic and I'd be slightly uncomfortable with anyone reading this and thinking all Catholics have the idea the homosexuality is somehow evil, its a very subjective issue in society in general, not just with the catholic faith.

My take on it all as a hetrosexual man is that as long as something is between to consenting adults, I dont care what anyone gets up too. Also we are taught at school, that even if someone is opposed to homesexuality, that you 'hate the sin not the sinner' so in that respect no one should turn their back on anyone due to their sexuality.

Not to sound a smart arse but sometimes you feel in the media and online that the debate on homosexuality has somehow become a much bigger issue in America than it has in the rest of the world.

NelsonMuntz84: Its not the same, say someone is ill and people on here say I'll pray for them, your not praying too them are you ?Its the same with the Saints, your asking them to pray usually for someone else, its a subtle difference.

The aspects of the Church I have issues with are not the Virgin, the Saints or Jesus rising from the dead, its the modern rules that the vactican imposes without caring for its own people, essentially what I would losely term the 'man made rules since 69' Those are the problems that exist in Rome, and one of which to a degree is what was brought up in the first post of this topic in respect to gay people.
I personally, though a roman catholic, dont agree with the sentiments, I come from a much more liberial background, but he wasn't name calling, being offensive (on purpose) so its best to wish the fella well and let him lead his life, and you and I lead ours.

Here follows the cathechistic answer: Hail Mary (or Ave Maria) is indeed a prayer, but a prayer of intercession. We are praying to God through the intercession of Mary. Mary is the most revered of all the saints; she was, after all, chosen from among all women to the the mother of the Incarnate God. She has a special relationship with God. In the Catholic Church, she bears the title of Mediatrix. We offer our prayers for Mary to 'pass on' to God, so to speak. We're asking her to pray to God in our behalf. Notice the wording of the second half of the Ave Maria; it begins, "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners..." Notice in litanies, when we address God we say, "Receive our prayer", but when we address the saints we say, "Pray for us." The difference is that we pray to God, but ask intercession from the saints. The theological terms for the difference are saints receive reverence ("doulia"), Mary receives elevated reverence ("hyperdoulia"), but adoration ("latreia") is reserved for God alone.

That's not being a judgmental asshole; that's being human. Theologically speaking, one cannot afford respect to God without showing respect to those created in His image. We all have a bit of God in us. I realise that you don't believe any of this, but I'm just presenting what the Christian ideal is. hungthick is entitled to his opinion. It is not particularly homophobic (before changing his profile, he listed himself as '40% homosexual'); he is simply saying that this site is not providing what he needs in his life right now. Mind you, hungthick is not exactly my favourite person in the world, and I've butted heads with him on more than one occasion, but to his credit, I read no disrespect to any of us in his post.

. . . . Intercession of the saints is a concept very misunderstood by Protestants.)
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Jacinto: Please don't generalize and say this concept is "very misunderstood by Protestants". True, there are some of us who misunderstand, but far from all of us. Just one word (some) before "Protestants" would have kept me from getting a slap in the face.

Luke

I'm sorry, Luke; I meant no offence or slight. Saintly intercession is a very Catholic/Orthodox/Coptic concept, as are things like papal infallibility and transubstantiation, and most Protestants misinterpret what they perceive. I didn't mean to imply that non-Catholics cannot understand complex theological matters. In fact, many Catholics understand surprisingly little about the theology of their religion.

Gentlemen:
Aftr having read all of the pronouncements I feel I must put in my 2cents worth.Coming frrom a strong roman Catholic family on my mothers side of the family. I have to admit that I have been aa life long Presbyterian. due to problems in the church(Caholic) my grandfather forbade anyone from attending the Catholc church because he felt it was worse than none. I am not a scholar of the Catholic or any oher church. But I have attended and been an officer and choir member for many years. I think our friend is searching for something to hang his hat on. I think many of us are in the same position . But I would not go so far as to spite my nose, to save my face.In the world we live in today I think all caring people only have to read the paper and see what is happening in the Catholic church. In spite of all my feelings I wouldn to want to embroil myself in that mess
My friend may you go forth with open eyes and heart and find that which yu seek.
and go with the grace of God and find yourself in this Easter Season

NelsonMuntz84: I know what your saying but the mess in the Catholic church is down to whats not happening, rather than what is. I'd also point out that here the Presbyterian Church has the same problem.

HungThick is making his choice, but the stuff about not being around gays or bi is his idea of dealing with life, I certainly dont think its about being a Catholic, its certainly not my idea of being a Catholic and not a universal one.

I'm sorry, Luke; I meant no offence or slight. Saintly intercession is a very Catholic/Orthodox/Coptic concept, as are things like papal infallibility and transubstantiation, and most Protestants misinterpret what they perceive. I didn't mean to imply that non-Catholics cannot understand complex theological matters. In fact, many Catholics understand surprisingly little about the theology of their religion.
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I'm sure I knew, even before your reply, that you didn't intentionally mean ALL Protestants, Jacinto, but I must be short-fused today. One of my oldest and closest friends teaches at Christian Bros. High School in St Louis and I became interested in Roman Catholicism soon after meeting him. I have a lot of respect for your religion, especially the pageantry, and I'm usually fascinated by your replies concerning religion. :) pals still?