Sex with my best buddy.

The feeling is mutual. The more I am around you the more I like you and think of you as a true friend. Of course Freddie is not my real name and the address is a hotmail address which no one knows the password except me. I sometimes feel dishonest in the life I live, but then the subject has never come up either. I have been faithful and will continue to do so. I am a person of integrity or at least I try to be. I am very fond of both you and Ashlar and in just the past few days I have delveoped a friendship with Herble. I feel better having posted that.

I find that the eternal truths and the I call them wicked sins are what counts. Dishonesty is wrong for any or us. But greed and coveting are the worst. People don't know what coveting really means. You can see it in little children. As in they don't want a play toy like the one Johnny has. They want Johnny's. That sin or short coming is the root of nearly all problems in this world today. The others can be dealt with. But coveting destroys people. As long as you want one just like what someone else has you are fine.

Everyone knows that sex is there to create children and it is also there as a gift to enjoy. Of course we must have man and woman relationships to continue to produce children. God ordained that. But let's face it, the institution of marriage was and is primarily to protect the interests of the children. This is true in all cultures and religions. It is also was used to protect the wife in that last few centuries. But in ancient times a man could divorce his wife for no real reason. Jesus condemned that. Jesus was talking about men "putting a woman away." Not the modern divorce in which the law is to protect both parities.

Everything in the Bble and what Jesus said must be understood in the context and cultrural bias and rules then and then intrerpreted in light of our culture and socieity we live in today. The Bible is supposed to be a liivng book, not a dead book. There is no room for fundalmentalism in any religion. It is looking back instead of lookiing forward and becomes dead and irrevelent to the world or becomes a a dictatorship of the masses by a few at the top. Both results are not right.

As for Ashlar and Herble, I wish them the best. I hope they can be happy together for a lifetime. I know that trying to change someone doesn't work. It just doesn't.

Jana, I have no doubt in an after life. I also have no doubt that you will be in heaven. I don't know about some of those TV preachers who preach nothing but hate and scorn, but you will be there. I look forward to that afterlife when I will see you there. And Ashlar and Herble will be there as well. Who knows maybe we will get to take that plane ride!

Again, thanks for such a wonderful letter to me. You have been so kind to me. I just hope I am half the person you think I am.

As far as you, my only regret is that I haven't been able to protect you against the onslaught of that evil person. I pray he will come to his senses and reform.

May God bless you as well. I know God is blessing you and know that you feel his presence in your life. God only wants what is best for all of us. In the end we will get it. Either here or later there.

Freddie

First- Zora is a smart woman who I would like to know.
Blue, good for you and don't let anyone tell you what or who you are.
Fred, also very smart.
I really can't say more than the smart one's here :), but one thing I know is it's better to be single and explore what YOU want before getting into a commited relationship. If you want straight, gay or both...why not? It's sex and then when you get older decide what YOU prefer! Acts don't make you gay or straight! We have posted to this before, as I think the gay (and I am) "insecure" guys are the worst hippocrites (did I spell that correctly) in that they want everyone to be gay to justify their own identity. I do think Fred is correct in saying what might happen in the future AND thats OK. If more straight guys could say; "I was f'd by this guy last night..." and be open/able to by society, it would make life easier. Thats how it was in Greece and Rome my friends :) In my perfect world, guys ARE gay until 30-40, then you father ONE child and are in that relationship until the kid is 18. You must remain a family unit, but if either of you want another sex partner, just check the box and submit it to the court and your partner. Sex is a seperate "stock option" :) See, no unwanted pregnancy, no gay bashing (like being forced to serve in the military), no game playing about getting laid (you know how women are taught) and then you get your act together. You like the gay sex or you don't, but then you know and all the games would go away. Should I run for president? :)

Agreed about literalism vs. cultural context. The difference becomes important in a lot of verses. Some, such as circumcision and dietary law, most orthodox sects agree are contextual. Others, such as homosexuality, not quite there yet.

As far as gay marriage goes, marriage is an ancient custom, certainly pre-dating Ussher's chronology. Most if not all societies have some form of it. (I make an exception for the Moso of China's Fujian province.) But many also have a type of same-sex marriage, either based on age or gender role. Or some equivalent form of marriage; either way, you don't see the kind of nasty attitude toward homosexuality in most of the world that you see in fundies. (Even in Afghanistan, the Taliban looked the other way in age-structured relationships.)

Jonb, you facinate me with your command of history of culture and belief systems of societies throughout history. It is refreshing to read what you write. Most "historians" and I use that term loosely, only deal with dates of wars, names of heroes and ad nauseum. But you get into the actual life styles, belief systems and customs of the people. Actually that is really anthropology which is a cousin and yet an inseparateable part of history and the part of social studies I love more than history itself.

Unfortunately for me, you give a lot of information about customs and belief systems of cultures and societies that I am totaly ignorant. Would you mind posting some of your sources? I have access to a very good library and would love to read up on the things that you tell.

You are very learned man. No mistake about it. I know just enough to recognize the giant you are in knowledge of people and their customs and beliefs.

Wish I could just sit and listen to the vast information you have to share.

Freddie

Wow, hung is right, I like this place.

Ok, on to topic. This post hit real home because I'm in a similiar situation. Except I met my friend as he was searching for a guy to explore with on a gay chat versus already being friends with him. We've known each other for some time...the early 90s talking online and we finally met in person like about 4 years later. He was terrified that his interest meant that he was gay. I never said whether he was or wasn't to him. Anyway, we'd met and did some simple masturbation together in some back lot of our college. While that was cool, I'd wanted someone to hang out with as well. So then we moved into grabbing some beers and then scurrying off to masturbate before the end of the night. A while longer and then I finally learned where he lived and was invited there. He wanted to try it all, but was pretty nervous about it. After a bit, he'd wanted to get head which wasn't a big deal to me, but as he's a quiet person during sex, I had no idea he was a second or so from popping, so instead of getting it on my clothes, I just swallowed. I simply didn't want to have to explain the stain as he's a heavy shooter. I was surprised when he ran to the bathroom and got sick. figured that'd be it for us as friends, but we got together again after that and he moved into topping me. I still said nothing nor did I push for anything. So, early last year, he mentioned about wanting to bottom. I said ok, but nothing else because i didn't want him to think I was pressuring him. It finally happened when we went to the beach, so that was a memorable thing. That also solidified our friendship in a manner he nor I expected. Nothing special, but instead of being refered to as his friend, he started mentioning me as his brother. An impressive feat as he's big on his fraternity. So, we've had a long history together that has come to an end a couple days ago. Nothing bad happened between us, he got a job offer that was too good to pass up and I had to help talk him into taking it to further his career goals. We went out for one last set of drinks and he informed me he wasn't likely to do anything like we did again, but he enjoyed all the time we did have together. Helped him pack up and he's now about 4 hours away from me. Not a big deal, but a jump from 20 mins. He took his adventure in curiousity and had a great time with it. His outlook on sexuality and homosexuals in general has completely changed and he thanked me for it. He had a friend come out to him and he was way better prepared to deal with it than if we'd not met and been friends.

So, I say this...while i may be late in doing it. If your friend wants to switch the roles and you feel ok with it, go for it man. I'm pretty much versatile, so I feel no less masculine when I bottom. Just be ok with it is the important thing.

Ok, that went on too long. I'm done. :)

See Kimahri - your friend was lucky to have you...Your patience and understanding in that situation is rare...I primarily live as a straight man but really don't like labels...Only been in committed relationships w/women...But I find that most of the gay guys I have seen in this city really negatively label you as gay instead of bi-sexual if you hook up w/a guy...Totally have no problem w/being gay but I actually don't consider myself completely gay because of my strong attraction sexually to women...So the point I am making is I wish that most people were as understanding as Kimahri...Juilus Caesar said it best "It is a honor to be loved by both sexes"...

Unfortunately for me, you give a lot of information about customs and belief systems of cultures and societies that I am totaly ignorant. Would you mind posting some of your sources? I have access to a very good library and would love to read up on the things that you tell.

You are very learned man. No mistake about it. I know just enough to recognize the giant you are in knowledge of people and their customs and beliefs.

Wish I could just sit and listen to the vast information you have to share.
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There's been a lot written about culturally-sanctioned homosexuality, though most of it's first-term anthropology. I'm Lakota, and we have the third-gender type, meaning that one partner is more feminine. Of course, this isn't to say two guys together is taboo; during my time in South Dakota, I don't think I ever heard anything homophobic except from white men.

The age one's fairly well-known; ancient Greece comes to mind. As does Iran.

Oh, and PNG? That's the nice thing about being bisexual; there are different feelings from men and women. (And there are positions only two men can do. Of course, there are positions only heterosexual couples can do; we know that one.) The difficulty is finding a woman who understands that you also have a thing for guys, and that you and a friend might jackoff together or suck each other's cocks.

I think everyone should search in earnest for the person with whom they can share as much of themselves as possible. If you are truly bisexual, that is part of what you bring to the table in a relationship. If you look for more progressive thinking women who are confident in their own sexuality, I think you will have an easier time finding the ones who would be more open to a more open bisexual relationship. On the other hand, this could be a lot for a very shy girl with more tradition views of what a relationship should be to handle. The most important thing for everyone to understand each other is HONESTY!! It would be very unfair for you not to mention your desires, let a consevative girl fall in love with you, then spring it on her later. She might very well blow up, and you'll be left thinking "she'd accept me if she really loved me", which just isn't fair. It would be like thinking you're married to a dentist only to find out he's a government spy!
Many many people are in truth bisexual, the problems arise because our society doesn't encourage us to allow ourselves these feelings, so we end up in traditional relationships early on, because that's what we think we're supposed to do. Later, when we reveal what's really inside, our partner may very well feel resentful because they never got a chance to decide if that was okay with them or not. My suggestion is to seek out like minded women and men, and enjoy your life!

Totally agree w/you...I guess that is the hard thing about American society - very hard to find women who would be open or up for a relationship w/a male who has fooled around w/another guy...I dated this girl one time who was obsessed w/trying to find out if any guy she dated was interested in guys...At the time we dated, I had not hooked up w/a guy before...I remember one time she got really pissed when she found out her ex-boyfriend lived w/a gay guy - which I think was just a good friend of his...I have only had one friend who successfully have told most girls he dates that he is attracted to guys too and still dated the girl and eventually fathered children w/these women...Only down side is when he would get into fights w/one girl he dated - the first thing she would do is expose his lifestyle choices to his family members...That is the only thing he could not do is be honest w/his family...

Thanks for the compliment. But, as with anything in your life, who/what you are is up to you. I, nor any other gay/straight/bi dude can do it for you. I so wish so many would stop trying to "push" what they think on others.

As for patience and understanding, well...I'm in a fraternity too and after a really bad incident with a guy prior to going to college, my brother was extremely patient and understanding with me. He didn't tell me I was gay, he let me figure it out for myself. So, when I met curious guys, I will never label them (short of curious...guess you can't completely get away from labels, huh?). That is up to them.

Yeah, Jana. One thing is, I try to be upfront with women. "Yeah, I'm attracted to some men." Later in the relationship, I admit to having masturbated with other males in my life. The tendencies come out early, and the actual history is later, when we're ready to have sex.

I think this is an important thread, I hope it get a lot of readers. The reason why I think this kind of honesty is important is becuase everyone should have the right to be who they are. If someone has bisexual tendencies and wants to be able to explore sex with both genders, this defies the traditional definition of monogamy. If a woman gets into a relationship with a man believing it will be a monogamous one, it's unfair to force her to accept something different later on. If it is understood up front, then both people know score. Aslo, for the many who get into traditional relationships, and come out later, you need to realize that part of the impact will be the breakdown of monogamy as much as who it's going to be with. Once the realtionship becomes an open one, it must be open for both. I've seen situations where the guy wanted to be able to experiment with men, but have his wife remain faithful, which is bullshit. One guy (okay, this is me now, it was my husband) said I could experiment with women and that would be fair. The problem was, I'm not interested in women so it wasn't fair at all. This is probably a big reason why I shun the whole concept of monogamy these days because it seems so often it is only intended for one party and not the other.

Kimari, you make a good point about labeling, I think "curious" despite being a label in itself, gives people time to asses themselves and figure out where they fit in.

Thank you. Years of experience.

I've a friend that has that problem a bit. I don't like avoiding him but I also don't want to alienate his girlfriend so I keep away. Somewhere along the lines, I feel she blames me for his bi habits though.

Thank you. Years of experience.

I've a friend that has that problem a bit. I don't like avoiding him but I also don't want to alienate his girlfriend so I keep away. Somewhere along the lines, I feel she blames me for his bi habits though.
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Well, I would just let him come to you when he wants to. His girlfriend is his concern, not yours. Nomatter how hot you are, you simply can't change someone's sexual orientation! If he's attracted to you, that's coming from him, you can't be blamed for that. If you stay away, it is likely that he will find someone else to explore his curiousity with eventually. Nature of the beast.