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Old 05-08-2008   #144 (permalink)
HyperHulk
HyperHulk is offline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Ayesho View Post
Not only have I actually HAD these discussions... with men ranging from 25 to 84... I have also read books and watched interviews with black men and find their feelings about overbearing feminization are similar to those feelings expressed by males of other races...

So- you have never sat around with a group of men who were all bitvching a blue streak about their problems with women?

In fact... from the black men I have spoken to I find that they feel that black women in particular are even more harsh and emasculating than white or latino women.

I know 3 different black men who date or have married EXCLUSIVELY white women and when asked why, they say that the white women treat them better than the black women.

So, I am sorry but if you don't think I am right, that black men's experience of being a male is substantively similar to white men' s in regard to how women treat them...
Perhaps you can offer a better explanation for the misogyny in Rap lyrics?
I'm still amazed that you feel as a white guy you understand and know the Black male experience and psyche better than I do, as Black male. I who have friends and family members that will speak more intimately about these issues than they ever would around a white guy. Amazing. And because I don't hear the same bs that you hear, then it's because I'm not listening to them? Have I gone deaf? Has my brain turned off while yours has remained so remarkably acute?

Here's the thing, most Black men would never sit around talking about how women oppress or mistreat them because they would get "punked" by the brothas for being such a wimp. Yeah, they might complain about some things, the way anyone would complain about irritations in relationships. But not about being oppressed and mistreated. And certainly not about being feminized. I can just imagine a brotha telling his friends, oh yeah, she's feminizing me--he wouldn't be able to show his face again.

And educated, affluent Black men or religious, church going Black men don't talk about women in the way you describe. It's another reason why I know you're talking out of your ass, because you're getting all of your information from "rap" music. And you don't even understand that. Rap music does not represent the totality of the Black male's experience. It's a small subset and what it relates to is gang culture, not as a response to Black women. Gang culture is about power, but power that is achieved through territory and war--hyper masculine notions of control and dominance. And this is born from feeling powerless in a White America. The misogyny that exists is a reinforcement of their masculinity and alpha male dominance--the guy with the most women or getting the most sex is the man who rules over all. When you have no other options in life, these things become what is tangible--quick money, war with others and sex. None of this is because the men feel oppressed by women, but because they feel impotent in a society run and dominated by White people. And yet all the violence of gang culture is focused on other Black men.

As for those Black men who have chosen White partners, I can tell you they are lying to you. First note, that you say women are oppressing and mistreating men but somehow these white women who oppress white men are not oppressing or mistreating black men--interesting point which only undermines your own argument. Second, some Black men choose White women for many potential reasons: it's a status symbol, it's a taboo, it pisses of White guys, it's easier and because they can get away with stuff they can't with Black women. Not because the Black women are oppressing them but because they won't be treated disrespectfully. Wanting a man to treat you with respect and as an equal is not emasculating.

So show me these books and these interviews. You don't know what you're talking about. You've misinterpreted the experiences of Black men because you are interpreting them through your own misogynistic frames. You think women are emasculating men, so you think everyone thinks like you. Where are your real examples of how women emasculate and oppress men? You make no sense to me but if these are your views, you'd be best to avoid women and they'd be best to avoid you.