Horny......

9cyclops9: [quote author=Valkyrie link=board=women;num=1064768529;start=20#27 date=10/07/03 at 0240]Maybe it's a cultural issue - but I've never understood the whole thing about "waiting until I'm married"... *[/quote]

For me, it is also a part of my religion. And it makes much more sense. Besides all of the diseases running around out there, sex is too intimate, especially the first time, to just "explore" with someone you don't even love. Even when you think you do. Down the road, if you don't stay with that person, you are going to have some guilt. At least I know I would. Waiting until I'm married is about more than religion, although that is a huge part of it. It is one of the best ways to show your spouse that you really love them.

And I don't buy that crap about if you wait till you get married you won't know what you are doing and you'll both be bad at it. Half of the fun is experimenting and finding out exactly what each other likes. Much better to wait, and have all the excitement of finding out EVERYTHING with the same person.

Just my thoughts.

John

Tender: [quote author=GreenEyes link=board=women;num=1064768529;start=20#29 date=10/07/03 at 19:03:56]
*It all depends on what is going to make YOU happy in the long run. *To wait or not to. *Whatever you decide it is your decision and that is a good thing that you can decide for yourself.

[/quote]

thats just the thing though for me,
i *thought* that i would be happy with the decision i made,
but well i was
very
wrong. :'(

and it was a decision, not like a heat of the moment thing. and looking back, i still say that i loved him.
but it just wasnt meant to be for some reason.
at that i say i very much agree with what john said here.
but on the other hand,
i can very much understand what green eyes is saying about the 'if i knew' thing. sometimes its easy to look back and see all the time and opportunities missed... not just talking about sex here... but life in general...
when we live every day thinking tomarow will be better or different somehow...
sooner or later you wake up to see that today was yesterdays tomarow... make sense??
my grandma always used to say...
dont wish your life away...
sigh.
well all that babbling...all of it makes sense i guess, but doesnt change anything...
:(
Tender

GreenEyes: Ok realize that all of this talk still hasn't stopped me from feeling horny. ;D

Bottom line is you make the choices that will make you happy in life. Hopefully they are the correct choices but definitely ones you have to live with.

Tender: [quote author=GreenEyes link=board=women;num=1064768529;start=20#32 date=10/08/03 at 1437]
Ok realize that all of this talk still hasn't stopped me from feeling horny. *;D

[/quote]

ditto a hundred times LOL!
:)

petite_girl: [quote author=Valkyrie link=board=women;num=1064768529;start=20#27 date=10/07/03 at 0240]Maybe it's a cultural issue - but I've never understood the whole thing about "waiting until I'm married"...
[/quote]

I have known so many people who have given up their virginity to a guy and then regretted it afterwards. It's not like I haven't done *other* sexual things with guys, but I regret ever even kissing some of the guys that I've kissed. Empty orgasms depress me, too.

I want to wait for marriage because I know I would marry the one I love, and I wouldn't give it to anyone but the one I love. That and the fact that I want a guy to love me for me; not for the sex.

sammygirly: I don't abstain and I didn't abstain - however, intimate sexual relations is not something that I myself can ever take or give lightly.

I don't frown upon those who can - but I need serious emotional intimacy before I can be physically intimate. My sexual partner count is VERY low and I like it that way

bigcock: Hell I'm still a virgin at 21 and horny as hell ;D

GreenEyes: Horny is a good state of being. :)

With what I am reading of you Wolfie I am sure the woman you choose to loose your virginity to will be very lucky.

Again I was blessed that I was in love when I lost mine. I think it made it so much more special.

Tender: [quote author=GreenEyes link=board=women;num=1064768529;start=20#37 date=10/09/03 at 0219]Again I was blessed that I was in love when I lost mine. *I think it made it so much more special. *[/quote]


i didnt find it a blessing at all...
for me it just hurt too much when the relationship ended.
would have been easier if it were just a fun thing for my first time, instead of an emotional thing. i guess i didnt juggle the two together well...
depends on the person maybe.
but then on the other hand, well i cared alot for him, so i glad it wasnt just anyone ...
i know! double talk... :-/

Tender

Valkyrie: Some additional comments on the subject of abstaining from sex until you're married. I hear what you say and I can understand the issue about religious beliefs - in my opinion that would be probably the most common reason for waiting. But, I do have issues even with this definition - as it's commonly applied (at least in the US).

Please see the following only as a general discussion - the comments are not aimed at any particular person in this thread, or otherwise any particular person defined.

For once - I have a hard time understanding how one can define sex as too intimate or too valuable to share with someone else than your husband/wife - and at the same time explore many venues of sexuality with someone who is "only" a boy-/girlfriend - oral sex, heavy petting, kissing, caressing, getting undressed together etc.

What is less intimate with those activities - other than the fact that the hymen of the woman is not broken and thus her physical virginity preserved? Or are those activities not seen as sex in the proper definition? In that case why, as they are usually considered an integral part of most people's sex life?

What would the reaction be to an activity such as anal sex? This has been used, and is to my knowledge in some cultures still used, as a way of having sex before marriage but still preserving the woman's physical virginity? Is this also less sex than penetrating sex involving the vagina and the penis?

To me it sounds more than a bit hypocritical to say that you will abstain from sex before marriage, and at the same time explore all (or close to all) avenues of sexuality but penetrating vaginal sex.

Again - take the same activities defined above - oral sex, kissing, heavy petting, caressing, getting undressed together - and put them in the context of cheating, i.e. the same activities taking place outside of marriage, with someone who is not your husband/wife. If the definition is that these activities are not sex - as is the implied definition since they are OK before marriage (under the assumption "abstaining from sex before marriage") - wouldn't they also be seen as "not cheating" when performed with someone outside of the marriage?

My gut feeling is that most people would define most (if not all) of the above activities as cheating and breaking the vow of fidelity between husband/wife. Why the double standard - the activity would be OK before marriage, even when abstaining from sex before you're married, but the same activity performed with someone else than your husband/wife would be considered cheating?

Maybe it's a fruitless discussion - but as outlined above I have a hard time understanding why there is such a double standard... To me it's more about control over people's sexuality than about "common sense" or enjoying life. Control in particular over women's sexuality as it's usually (but not always) the woman's virginity who is implied when abstaining from sex before marriage. This is usually the case as the woman's virginity is the only one even remotely possible to verify (even if also this can be hard) - for a man there is no possibility to physically verify if he is indeed a "virgin" or not.

As an entirely different issue (but still relevant to this discussion). It is only in cultures where inheritance and name is related to the male side of the family that there is this focus on preserving a woman's virginity until marriage. Likely because of the "need" to ensure that the offspring born to a woman is fathered only by her legal husband - no one else. With preserving a woman's virginity until the day she is married, it is also implied that the man can rest assured that his semen has impregnated her and that the offspring is indeed his.

And for the record - I'm not advocating getting out and having sex with just anyone you see - that's not the issue. But if you are in a long term relationship, you feel comfortable with the other person, you have sexual feelings for the other person, you're exploring other sexual avenues with this person and you want to have penetrating sex with this person - why let religion/societal expectations/history/other issues dictate what you can and cannot do?

/Val

rainfletcher: Hi Val,

Great post.

In western religions (and maybe others), there is a clear distinction between vaginal penetration, and 'everything else'.

If you go to the average youth group at the average church, you'll find frequent discussions on 'how far is too far?' That is, is kissing my boyfriend OK? Is touching each other OK? Etc. etc. And the answers are all over the board, really. But the answer on vaginal penetration usually consistent regardless of the religion (western religion).

I'm not particularly religious, but I can sort of see the point. I think vaginal penetration is a different thing than everything else. If that's true, then it's only natural that there should be different criteria for when it is and is not OK.

I am currently living with my girlfriend, we are not married, but we are (at least occasionally) having sex. I see no problem with this. We were having sex within a few weeks of meeting each other. i see no problem in this, either. But I can understand and respect those who decide to wait (or at least try to..:))

longtimelurker: I'm really not a religious person in the slightest, but I'd see 'sex' in religion terms to be anything where the penis enters the partner's body (i.e. oral, anal and vaginal but not mutual masturbation). I think this is a more common view here than in the US (where I heard that oral sex isn't viewed quite as seriously). Saying that, however, I wouldn't be too keen on my girlfriend jerking off any guy that asks for it!!!

I find it a bit crazy, anyway - as if you listen to the clergy you're not meant to masturbate, either and how many guys (and prob. girls) can honestly admit to that? And that's just the start of a whole load of things that is seen as sinful but people do anyway.

9cyclops9: [quote author=Valkyrie link=board=women;num=1064768529;start=20#39 date=10/09/03 at 09:19:15]Some additional comments on the subject of abstaining from sex until you're married. I hear what you say and I can understand the issue about religious beliefs - in my opinion that would be probably the most common reason for waiting. But, I do have issues even with this definition - as it's commonly applied (at least in the US).

Please see the following only as a general discussion - the comments are not aimed at any particular person in this thread, or otherwise any particular person defined.

For once - I have a hard time understanding how one can define sex as too intimate or too valuable to share with someone else than your husband/wife - and at the same time explore many venues of sexuality with someone who is "only" a boy-/girlfriend - oral sex, heavy petting, kissing, caressing, getting undressed together etc.

What is less intimate with those activities - other than the fact that the hymen of the woman is not broken and thus her physical virginity preserved? Or are those activities not seen as sex in the proper definition? In that case why, as they are usually considered an integral part of most people's sex life?

What would the reaction be to an activity such as anal sex? This has been used, and is to my knowledge in some cultures still used, as a way of having sex before marriage but still preserving the woman's physical virginity? Is this also less sex than penetrating sex involving the vagina and the penis?

To me it sounds more than a bit hypocritical to say that you will abstain from sex before marriage, and at the same time explore all (or close to all) avenues of sexuality but penetrating vaginal sex.

Again - take the same activities defined above - oral sex, kissing, heavy petting, caressing, getting undressed together - and put them in the context of cheating, i.e. the same activities taking place outside of marriage, with someone who is not your husband/wife. If the definition is that these activities are not sex - as is the implied definition since they are OK before marriage (under the assumption "abstaining from sex before marriage") - wouldn't they also be seen as "not cheating" when performed with someone outside of the marriage?

My gut feeling is that most people would define most (if not all) of the above activities as cheating and breaking the vow of fidelity between husband/wife. Why the double standard - the activity would be OK before marriage, even when abstaining from sex before you're married, but the same activity performed with someone else than your husband/wife would be considered cheating?

Maybe it's a fruitless discussion - but as outlined above I have a hard time understanding why there is such a double standard... To me it's more about control over people's sexuality than about "common sense" or enjoying life. Control in particular over women's sexuality as it's usually (but not always) the woman's virginity who is implied when abstaining from sex before marriage. This is usually the case as the woman's virginity is the only one even remotely possible to verify (even if also this can be hard) - for a man there is no possibility to physically verify if he is indeed a "virgin" or not.

As an entirely different issue (but still relevant to this discussion). It is only in cultures where inheritance and name is related to the male side of the family that there is this focus on preserving a woman's virginity until marriage. Likely because of the "need" to ensure that the offspring born to a woman is fathered only by her legal husband - no one else. With preserving a woman's virginity until the day she is married, it is also implied that the man can rest assured that his semen has impregnated her and that the offspring is indeed his.

And for the record - I'm not advocating getting out and having sex with just anyone you see - that's not the issue. But if you are in a long term relationship, you feel comfortable with the other person, you have sexual feelings for the other person, you're exploring other sexual avenues with this person and you want to have penetrating sex with this person - why let religion/societal expectations/history/other issues dictate what you can and cannot do?

/Val[/quote]

Well, although this wasn't particularly aimed at anyone, I was the only one to say anything about sex being too intimate to share with anyone but your spouse. But I don't know where you got all the stuff about exploring everything but vaginal penetration. I, for one, don't do anything except kiss. And it seems to me that a kiss is more a sign of affection than an actual sexual act. It's a way of saying "I love you." And just because kissing is seen as an integral part of many people's sex lives doesn't mean it is an act of sex. Love is also an integral part of many people's sex lives, and it isn't seen as an act of sex.

And as for whose virginity is implied when we talk about saving ourselves for marriage, as far as the Christian viewpoint goes, both the man and the woman are expected to remain virgins until marrigage.

And as to why I let my religion dictate what I do and do not do: if I were to say that one of the commandments in the Bible were not applicable to me, then I might as well throw out the whole thing. It's all or none at all as far as I'm concerned. Not to say that I never mess up. But I really try not to.

Yes, my religion is probably the only reason I have to abstain from sex, but I do take my faith very seriously. Culture and society have nothing to do with it. If I were to go by cultural and societal expectations, I would have lost my virginity a long time ago.

John

wvalady1968: [quote author=9cyclops9 link=board=women;num=1064768529;start=40#42 date=10/09/03 at 14:29:28]

It's all or none at all as far as I'm concerned. John[/quote]

John, I don't really think V al was responding to just you. In fact, the one quote from your response [above] is what I think she was saying.

So many people seem to have the Clintonesque mindset that anything EXCEPT vaginal penetration is okay, since only THAT qualifies as sex.

I think Val's point was to either save yourself for someone special or have a completely sexual, but HONEST, relationship with someone you're attracted to. I agree.

9cyclops9: Yeah. You're right. Sorry I kinda took it out of proportion. Stressful time right now.

John