gifted vs. achieved?

getnbiggr: Hey all,

Some of these ideas have surfaced recently in other posts, so I thought I'd ask a couple of questions here...

We are all of us here a combination of physical and personality traits, some of which we are born with, and some of which we have worked hard to achieve. I'm tall and (reasonably) well-hung, both of which just come from the genetic lottery. I've also worked hard in the gym to put on some muscle, and I've put in a lot of time at school to become fairly well-educated, etc etc...

And since this is place for people to talk about their genetic gifts, I was wondering what people here think when others compliment you for, or place value on, either one or another set of your characteristics: gifted, or achieved.

I often have people tell me they really find my height attractive, and it always makes me laugh a bit, 'cause it's not like I can take any credit for being tall: simple genetics. Same thing with being well hung. I'ts great, but I like to put more emphasis on the things I actually did for myself...

But then the flip side of the issue is that at that the genetic lottery tends to balance out some of the other societal factors, like money, class, education, etc... You can be hung no matter how much money you make, how much education you have, what social class you were born into... And so sometimes I think of the genetic lottery as a great equalizer...

Anyways, just rambling a bit here. Anyone else have any thoughts about this kind of thing?

-- J.

awellhungboi: I know what you mean. The genetic gifts I have, (which I'm grateful for), don't give me the same sense of accomplishment as, say, finishing a story or staying on track with my sobriety does. I don't consider my (occasional bursts of) intelligence, societally acceptable facial structure, broad shoulders, small waist etc as 'virtues' any more than I consider my near-sightedness, weird feet, or cavity-prone teeth as 'faults.' Or, maybe to put it a better way, I don't think those genetic 'gifts' make me 'good' and the genetic 'whoopses' make me 'bad' and I hope nobody else does either. Maybe it's because I grew up watching Mr. Rogers (God Rest His Soul) but I think everybody is special and has something to offer the world.

I'm rambling too. Sorry if that sounds corny. (Sorry for all the 'quotation' marks, exclamation points! and parentheses too!)

A very good question, but possibly any attempt to answer it risks waxing a bit philosophical. Which as someone who read philosophy to degree level I am certainly capable of doing, along I think with a good many others here ;)

I don't think myself that you can easily disentangle those traits which are basically your genetic inheritance from those which stem from your upbringing; after all in most cases the same two people are responsible for both.

Nothing wrong in my book in being very glad you are tall, or handsome, or intelligent, or well endowed, or even all of them together. Or even of just being a nice guy. Even the capacity to work well with what we've got has to have a genetic component.

But in the lpsg context: I freely admit to having arrived a long time ago (after not a little difficulty) at the point where I can be proud of my size and capacity. But I would be very ashamed indeed if it ranked remotely near the top of the list of what I had to be proud about.

miket: I think the muscles I have are earned and the education, etc. I think there is gift in being well hung. If I could get a heavy big thick cock from working out believe me I would. It is a combination of those things we earn and those things born with. The luck of being born with a large penis is frustrating because it is nothing that one can earn in life. Yet I do admire it very much.

Rayolin: hmmm... very very very interesting topic.

It's difficult for me to imagine taking pride in what our genes have given us. I'm not proud im tall or that i have blue eyes. Whats the sense in being proud of something personal you have no control over? For me pride is something you have when you have achieved something, overcame an obstacle and done something yourself that you can take pleasure in.

Donk: I think the "pride" discussion really reflects nothing more than the fact that a word like "proud" in the English language can have different shades of meaning. In one sense, I think many of us are "proud" of our natural endowments and this kind of pride--rightly or wrongly--is encouraged in our society. I can't count the number of times that guys have remarked to me that I should be "proud" of "that dick/cock/schlong/monster/thing". This kind of "pride" is similar to how I feel, for example, proud to be an American--both are an accident of birth.

I agree that the other type of pride--earned pride--is probably more justifiable. If someone compliments me on my penis size, that's all well and good but I should stay humble about the fact that I did nothing to make it grow except survive puberty. But if someone compliments an accomplishment--education, career, muscular physique, etc.--I have more right to feel legitimate pride.

i think i have leaned toward the talents
and interests that were "born in me", that
i was prone to.

But you have to take those things and work
hard with them.

I'm an artist...and i feel i arrived on the planet
with the talents that i have, but
you still must practice, grow, continue to learn.

My endowment i see as just a random
happening, so i dont get a
feeling of achievement from that.
But,
whatever your size is,
you can learn, and practice, and get
better about using it.

ORCABOMBER: Personally, I am not thrilled with genetic acheivements, I mean, my body and it's defences, whatever are great, but I couldn't use them to show off (unless catching chickenpox twice and being allergic to powdered shampoo is a benefit! :D )

Okay, I've gotten plenty of IMs saying, "I know you have an opinion on this post." You're right; I do.
Compliment me on my face, my smile, my eyes, my hair, my cock. That's fine. I like hearing that you enjoy the scenery. And it's like saying,"Congratulations on winning the lottery!" I didn't achieve anything; it's all dumb luck. But there's nothing wrong with someone being impressed by what I was lucky enough to end up with. I'm very happy with what genetic gifts my parents provided, and I enjoy hearing that others like looking at those attributes. Specifically LPSG related: I like my cock, and I'm pleased that you find it attractive.
Now achievements. I've worked hard on my body and on my mind. My biceps, my pecs, my ass, my ability to speak seven languages, my knowledge of art, literature, drama, theology, my athletic feats ... those are the results of hard work, not a genetic fluke. Those are things I attained because I wanted to attain them. I was willing to put forth the effort to achieve them. And those are the things that I take personal pride in because I made them happen. So do I value compliments on these things more than compliments on my genetic gifts? You bet your ass I do!
But it's still nice to hear, "You have a gorgeous smile!" ;)

tott666: [quote author=DoubleMeatWhopper link=board=relationships;num=1048642330;start=0#8 date=04/29/03 at 20:37:24]Now achievements. I've worked hard on my body and on my mind. My biceps, my pecs, my ass, my ability to speak seven languages [/quote]

OK, I have to ask; are you actually really fluent in those languages? As in really good, flawless pronounciation, grammar and all?

I do have an ear for languages but I find it really hard to perfect other languages than my own native Swedish. My English is fairly good and I still catch myself making silly mistakes like using "is" instead of "are" at times. I understand practically anything (I have an extensive passive vocabulary) but I sometimes feel so inadequate... I don't speak and *live* the language. My pronounciation is fairly good though not perfect. I guess I swing between US/UK lingo.

I'm learning Italian atm and it's not that hard a language, but still... I'd like to be perfect. ADESSO!

(A confession: Non ho studiato tanto, sono pigro.)

[quote author=tott666 link=board=relationships;num=1048642330;start=0#9 date=05/02/03 at 1624]

OK, I have to ask; are you actually really fluent in those languages? As in really good, flawless pronounciation, grammar and all?[/quote]

I speak Spanish, English, Portuguese, Catalán and Italian fluently. My pronunciation is good, though I have a trace of accent. I'm losing more and more of the accent in English since it is now my primary language. My grammar is good in those languages, and so is my syntax.

If I'm very careful with French, I can get it more grammatically correct than I usually tend to do. French has some strange phonemes that are difficult for non-native speakers to pronounce, so my accent is naturally more obvious when speaking French. However, I have no trouble making myself understood, nor do I have any difficulty understanding someone speaking good French.

Russian is stranger still, what with is palatalised consonants and other phonetic oddities. Russian grammar is rough with its declensions of nouns, adjectives and even numbers. Russian is not a pretty language, but it's an interesting language.

If your question is whether or not I can carry on a normal conversation in all seven languages, the answer is yes.
:)

tott666: [quote author=DoubleMeatWhopper link=board=relationships;num=1048642330;start=0#10 date=05/02/03 at 2128]
If your question is whether or not I can carry on a normal conversation in all seven languages, the answer is yes.
:)[/quote]

That's excellent!

Time for me to hit the Italian books before I develop an inferiority complex... ;D