10-27-2008
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#31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sklar  As someone with common sense, I sit here baffled by the "experts" who, just today, are telling the world that it looks like the market is finally hitting a bottom. Are these the same experts that when oil was at $130 + a barrell that we can expect oil futres to go up to $500 a barrell?? Where are they getting these predictions from and why is no one challenging them on it? | This was all smoke and mirrors speculation and goes hand in hand with what several OPEC sources were saying at the time. The claim was that production was easily keeping track with consumption but not necessarily with demand.
So where was it going?
Straight into hedge funds and investment banks as speculative futures contracts. It was viewed as a potential way for some of them to dig themselves out of a hole. Lehmann Bros is one that comes to mind.
No one challenges them because they are "experts" in suits who know better than you and me.
On another note, I was re reading some historical bits on the French Revolution recently and the parallels gave me a creepy feeling. Out of touch and incompetent administration racks up massive debt through unpopular overseas wars and is then hit with the double whammy of domestic economic turmoil caused by high food prices. Beforesaid incompetents then station troops around national capitol for civilian control only to loose complete control of the country.
Substitute food for oil and you're nearly there.
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"Some people are worried about the difference between right and wrong. I'm worried about the difference between wrong and fun." - P J O'Rourke - Holidays In Hell
"In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us" - Thich Nhat Hanh
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. " - Sinclair Lewis
Last edited by Elmer Gantry; 10-27-2008 at 10:31 PM..
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10-27-2008
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#32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by faceking The Journal doesn't seem to think so. Saw this in today's edition. I find the combination of sticking to businesses with tax increases, take away their free trade, and take away the economic outsourcing of low level functions, and require those jobs back in the US at 3x the cost. What do you think that will do?
Up the social security tax, as well as enforcement of health care services by corporate America (whom will in turn just make their employees pay for it, one way or another... higher out of pockets, take away 401k matching, etc...), a shaky markets, and lack of investor confidence.... I just don't see much of an influx (compared to what we saw from 1998-2008).
Also, take the baby boomer generation hitting retirement RIGHT NOW... and the liquidation of all those IRAs, 401Ks, etc... over the next 4 years, and then 4 more. Buh bye. So where is the new Obama administration likely to take us? Seven things seem certain: - The U.S. military will withdraw from Iraq quickly and substantially, regardless of conditions on the ground or the obvious consequence of emboldening terrorists there and around the globe.
- Protectionism will become our national trade policy; free trade agreements with other nations will be reduced and limited.
- Income taxes will rise on middle- and upper-income people and businesses, and individuals will pay much higher Social Security taxes, all to carry out the new president's goals of "spreading the wealth around."
- Federal government spending will substantially increase. The new Obama proposals come to more than $300 billion annually, for education, health care, energy, environmental and many other programs, in addition to whatever is needed to meet our economic challenges. Mr. Obama proposes more than a 10% annual spending growth increase, considerably higher than under the first President Bush (6.7%), Bill Clinton (3.3%) or George W. Bush (6.4%).
- Federal regulation of the economy will expand, on everything from financial management companies to electricity generation and personal energy use.
- The power of labor unions will substantially increase, beginning with repeal of secret ballot voting to decide on union representation.
- Free speech will be curtailed through the reimposition of the Fairness Doctrine to limit the conservative talk radio that so irritates the liberal establishment.
These policy changes will be the beginning of the Europeanization of America. There will be many more public policy changes with similar goals—nationalized health care, Kyoto-like global-warming policies, and increased education regulation and spending. | We are on a collision course with European economic fundamentals. Period. We're going there. Our world is changing in one week, and we are turning into Europe. I'm not saying that's good or bad, simply that we will be Europe in a few months.
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10-27-2008
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#33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by starinvestor We are on a collision course with European economic fundamentals. Period. We're going there. Our world is changing in one week, and we are turning into Europe. I'm not saying that's good or bad, simply that we will be Europe in a few months. | definitely bad |
Hey! I know what to do with a drunken sailor!
NZ All Blacks rule!
Vancouver Canucks rule!
クジラを救いなさい -- 日本人を銛を打ち込みなさい
解放西藏 !
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10-27-2008
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#34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by starinvestor We are on a collision course with European economic fundamentals. Period. We're going there. Our world is changing in one week, and we are turning into Europe. I'm not saying that's good or bad, simply that we will be Europe in a few months. | Worried about becoming like Europe? Then you must hate what we've lately been striving to be: The England of Charles Dickens.
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Love Over Gold
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10-27-2008
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#35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SpeedoGuy Worried about becoming like Europe? Then you must hate what we've lately been striving to be: The England of Charles Dickens. | I would appreciate being, "American." I like Europe and appreciate Europe, but please give me America.
I have a propensity for protecting our children and our economic and political freedoms....call me crazy. If you don't like freedom or independence, I can appreciate your affinity to all things 'non-American.'
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10-28-2008
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#36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by starinvestor I have a propensity for protecting our children and our economic and political freedoms....call me crazy. | Are you suggesting the desire to protect children and democratic values is uniquely American? Or are you claiming that for yourself alone? Quote:
Originally Posted by starinvestor If you don't like freedom or independence, I can appreciate your affinity to all things 'non-American.' | Way to project your fears onto me.
What makes you say this?
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Love Over Gold
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10-28-2008
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#37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by starinvestor No offense to liberals and Dems, but I don't really need to get 'you're a troll' and 'insane' and 'wacko' etc. on this thread. Please pile onto other threads for these thoughtful remarks.
This is targeted to the right.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Conservatives and repubs:
I believe there may be some silver lining in respect to the convergence of an economic recession and the possibility of a Democratically-dominated Congress and White House.
It will be, IMHO, much more difficult to push socialist, tax-rich policies through in a period of economic and financial turmoil. Most constituents, in dire economic times, will be resistent to heavy handed tax policy and liberal spending practices.
If the Dems converged with prosperous economic times, inflicting harmful socialist-type government initiatives would not be met with nearly as much resistance. A thriving stock market and growing economy would be a candy-store mentality for Pelosi and friends in passing harmful and far-reaching anti-business legislation.
Hopefully this offers some encouraging sentiments in light of an otherwise difficult economic predicament. | To get back to the original post, I agree that it's going to be very difficult for Obama to get through any of his socialist policies when there is no money. I think he will be forced to raise taxes, and when re-election comes the RNC can put his ass to the fire and show the country what a horrible mistake they have made. The Republican party may very well lose the White House to the Dems in 08, but rest assured that if the people give the dems full power over congress, senate,etc.. and the Dems don't deliver anything on their socialist agenda, then the Republicans will be back in power in the next round of elections. I think they are setting themselves up for a huge failure. They are promising all of their sheep that they are going to make it all better and everything is going to perfect, and it's not going to cost any of them any money... and when it doesn't pan out, they're going to pay for it.
Oh an on a side note, as some have mentioned the Clinton years... Why don't you ask someone who isn't poor whether or not the Clinton years were good years. I think you will find a completely different perspective. It's always the american way to focus on the lazy and poor.
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10-28-2008
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#38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JP0724 To get back to the original post, I agree that it's going to be very difficult for Obama to get through any of his socialist policies when there is no money. | What socialist policies? I don't think you know what socialism means. For someone who calls Democrats sheep, you do a great job of buying into the GOP talking points. Quote: |
I think he will be forced to raise taxes, and when re-election comes the RNC can put his ass to the fire and show the country what a horrible mistake they have made. The Republican party may very well lose the White House to the Dems in 08, but rest assured that if the people give the dems full power over congress, senate,etc.. and the Dems don't deliver anything on their socialist agenda, then the Republicans will be back in power in the next round of elections. I think they are setting themselves up for a huge failure. They are promising all of their sheep that they are going to make it all better and everything is going to perfect, and it's not going to cost any of them any money... and when it doesn't pan out, they're going to pay for it.
| It's possible that the Democrats may pass some stupid shit if they are in power of both Congress and the White house, just as Republicans clearly passed some retarded shit while they were in power.
Nobody has said that things are going to be perfect and that it will cost nothing. If you think this, you're more of a sheep to the GOP than any of the people you are criticizing are to their party. Quote: |
Oh an on a side note, as some have mentioned the Clinton years... Why don't you ask someone who isn't poor whether or not the Clinton years were good years. I think you will find a completely different perspective. It's always the american way to focus on the lazy and poor.
| Ah yes, poor people are lazy. Good show. Bootstraps!
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10-28-2008
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#39 (permalink)
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Well, I'm certainly far from poor and the Clinton years were very good to me. When the markets declined I had already dissolved my US interests, save for one, and had gone on to rape and pillage other foreign markets. So far I'm still far from poor. However, my financial success and survival would not have been possible had I not learned two other languages in addition to my native English while attending public school in Ewetaw.
As for the poor being characterized as stereotypically lazy, Sunday I had the Noriega brothers come by to finish the last bit of work I needed to repair and winterize my ranch and repair fencing. I couldn't get any local "contractors" to bother with driving 75 miles out to my place to earn an average of $20 an hour. Nope, they were all insulted that I even asked them. But the Noriega brothers, born and bred in México City D.F. and bearing real green cards showed up for 10 days in a row, starting at 6:00 AM and working their asses off until long after the sun had set. Those young men have been absolutely amazing, armed with basic plumbing, carpentry, and roofing skills. They even reinforced all my decks without me having to ask them. They thought I was being lazy because I didn't see fixing my decks as a priority. And their frugality, having come from a poor country, probably saved me $5,000 in roofing materials. Not all the shake cedar was bad, only bits and pieces. So, they cleaned up the shakes, throwing away the bad ones, and mixed the remaining in with new ones. I now have a better roof on the main house than I would have ended up with if I had actually been able to get a local roofing company to come out and redo the building. But the locals were too busy drinking beer, watching football, and playin' white trash in their aging single-wides in Wells, NV. Nope, they won't work unless it's a Nevada Highway road crew job or cleaning brush for the Forestry Department.
And how did I find these remarkably talented Noriega brothers? They had the initiative to put up fliers with their business cards stapled to them on the grocery store bulletin boards in Alberstons, Smiths, Raleys, and Roys.
Yup, the poor certainly are lazy. Especially those who have migrated from México and Central 'Mericuh.
I like the fact starinvestor and his ilk feel that being Republican and conservative somehow makes them members of an exclusive club. It belies their lack of travel in the USA as well as abroad and their general lack of education. These guys remind me of the days when Jim Crow laws were considered the norm and only white people (no matter how poor or lazy) supposedly had rights.
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- Virginity is short, but fellatio can last a long, long time.
- Some people are like a Slinky; they aren't good for anything, but they make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
- Isn't life beautiful? Isn't life gay? Isn't life the perfect way to spend the time of day?
 (hurl!)
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10-28-2008
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#40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by midlifebear Well, I'm certainly far from poor and the Clinton years were very good to me. When the markets declined I had already dissolved my US interests, save for one, and had gone on to rape and pillage other foreign markets. So far I'm still far from poor. However, my financial success and survival would not have been possible had I not learned two other languages in addition to my native English while attending public school in Ewetaw.
As for the poor being characterized as stereotypically lazy, Sunday I had the Noriega brothers come by to finish the last bit of work I needed to repair and winterize my ranch and repair fencing. I couldn't get any local "contractors" to bother with driving 75 miles out to my place to earn an average of $20 an hour. Nope, they were all insulted that I even asked them. But the Noriega brothers, born and bred in México City D.F. and bearing real green cards showed up for 10 days in a row, starting at 6:00 AM and working their asses off until long after the sun had set. Those young men have been absolutely amazing, armed with basic plumbing, carpentry, and roofing skills. They even reinforced all my decks without me having to ask them. They thought I was being lazy because I didn't see fixing my decks as a priority. And their frugality, having come from a poor country, probably saved me $5,000 in roofing materials. Not all the shake cedar was bad, only bits and pieces. So, they cleaned up the shakes, throwing away the bad ones, and mixed the remaining in with new ones. I now have a better roof on the main house than I would have ended up with if I had actually been able to get a local roofing company to come out and redo the building. But the locals were too busy drinking beer, watching football, and playin' white trash in their aging single-wides in Wells, NV. Nope, they won't work unless it's a Nevada Highway road crew job or cleaning brush for the Forestry Department.
And how did I find these remarkably talented Noriega brothers? They had the initiative to put up fliers with their business cards stapled to them on the grocery store bulletin boards in Alberstons, Smiths, Raleys, and Roys.
Yup, the poor certainly are lazy. Especially those who have migrated from México and Central 'Mericuh.
I like the fact starinvestor and his ilk feel that being Republican and conservative somehow makes them members of an exclusive club. It belies their lack of travel in the USA as well as abroad and their general lack of education. These guys remind me of the days when Jim Crow laws were considered the norm and only white people (no matter how poor or lazy) supposedly had rights. | Chances are the Noriega's are illegal, so they can't qualify for many of the handouts. What else can they do ;-) Shame on you not hiring union ppl anyways....  |
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10-28-2008
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#41 (permalink)
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He said they had green cards.
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11-03-2008
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#42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 1BiGG1;[COLOR=black 1774190] LOL,  I just bet you cannot find that article! Maybe you should look in My Imagination Monthly or Tinfoil Hat Quarterly  That’s the biggest bunch of cockamamie horse shit I have seen in a few days here and make no mistake, you have plenty of competition.[/COLOR] | I responded with a link and you said "nothing in there." Sorry everybody, I don't know how to multiquote. Hey man, you were right, that link I posted doesn't prove shit. But here is the official army release that pretty much backs up all the underground stuff that is being talked about. www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/ - 36k Here is the underground stuff that is being talked about www.sfbayview.com/tag/3rd-infantrys-1st-brigade-combat-team/ - 22k therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/3rd-infantry-division’s-1st-brigade-combat-team-to-begin-us-tour-of-duty/ - 143k www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/24/army/ http://i1.democracynow.org/2008/10/7/us_army_denies_unit_will_be http://www.alternet.org/rights/102220/is_posse_comitatus_dead/ http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/10/posse_comitatus.html http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/10/15/us-army-sergeant-asserts-posse-comitatus-is-not-being-violated/ We are on the verge of living in a military dictatorship. If you think it can't happen here, let me ask you a question. You think people weren't going about business as usual in 1932 Berlin? You don't think they had a media that was keeping quiet things like euthanasia and the massive increase in secret police.
The U.S. has just activated the army on American soil. If you are not scared than you are ...well I dunno. I don't know you so I am not gonna go there. You have been warned. I am seriously considering getting the fuck out of the country. | | | |
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11-03-2008
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#43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by curious n str8 Why is it that the liberal Democrats keep insisting that This is all caused by the Republicans? Just because it happened while Bush was in office doesn't make it so. This was yrs in the makeing and caused by the Dems and Reps alike. If you look at both parties there are very few true Dems and Reps. The most bitching I hear is comming from the Dems and they are refusing to become bipartsian to help fix this mess whats that say about themselfs? | I think that you are wrong in blaming Democrats. Clinton balanced the deficits with a surplus in two terms. How does one balance all that and somehow damage the economy? This doesn't make sense. Bush (a Conservative and I recall he had a Republican majority congress at the time too. One term.) was in there for two terms and we have a failing economy and STILL we are in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN. You guys voted Bush in there. And Bush doesn't seem to be too concerned on fixing the economy in these latter months. He HAS money. He'll probably live in Dubai along with Cheney...and Michael Jackson. |
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11-03-2008
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#44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nrets | Riiiiiiiight......... Quote:
Originally Posted by invisibleman I think that you are wrong in blaming Democrats. Clinton balanced the deficits with a surplus in two terms. How does one balance all that and somehow damage the economy? This doesn't make sense. Bush (a Conservative and I recall he had a Republican majority congress at the time too. One term.) was in there for two terms and we have a failing economy and STILL we are in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN. You guys voted Bush in there. And Bush doesn't seem to be too concerned on fixing the economy in these latter months. He HAS money. He'll probably live in Dubai along with Cheney...and Michael Jackson. | The economy was in the midst of a recession at the end of Clinton's term. Also "Surplus" does not mean "debt free" the country was still in massive debt.
Not pointing blame away from Bush and not pointing blame at Clinton. However I chuckle a little bit everytime people give Clinton credit for everything good in the 90s.
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11-03-2008
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#45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wartrac Riiiiiiiight......... | Did you try any of those links?
If you don't sense that something is going on then you are more deaf and blind than Helen keller.
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