Non-believers on a PE forum?

[Big Al]

Why do we have so many members here that don't believe that PE is possible and that feel the need to comment that "PE doesn't work" at every available opportunity? Have these gentlemen actually taken the time to learn about PE and its related subjects? Why they would even be on a PE forum without taking the time to learn about it is confusing.

Although there's plenty of evidence to the contrary, non-believers are entitled to their beliefs; but there's no need to try and discourage other men from trying to do something that makes them feel better about themselves. As long as it's done safely and you're willing to commit to it, PE exercises enlarge the penis and strengthen it as well.

[FuzzyKen]

As a whole there is a great deal of controversy on this subject and many people have heard so many conflicting opinions over the years that it is simply easier to become a card carrying skeptic.

The PE community has been horribly damaged by companies that promote products such as herbal oral enlargement pills and all the rest. This has damaged the credibility and reputation of those who may even have something that does work.

The next mistake that is made is a universal one. When people begin a PE program they do not as a whole do really good before documentation photography and have themselves measured by an impartial second or third party when any documentation is done. When progress is made, it is very easy based on amateur photography to be critical of what some of these individuals have done, or to accuse them of using photomanipulation. Lighting, focal length and all photography has to be the same to be really on the spot.

I personally would endorse using a digicam on a movie setting and going from flaccid to erect on camera. It would be possible to doctor this, but it would be very costly and difficult for most amateurs to do so without being detected. I would also make dead certain the the focal length and lighting were exactly the same without regards to the mode selected be it still photography or digital video clip.

The final part of the equation is that those promoting manual manipulation techniques do not as a whole take into consideration the differences between individuals. Some men will have ligament structures that will stretch easily and those men will have good results. Other men as a result of genetics will have ligament structures that simply will not stretch and when that percentage gets nothing they of course go back and shake the confidence of many who may have a chance. Not every man out there is going to respond without a ligament "chop", some will and a percentage will not.

I worked for years with Gary Griffin before his passing. I also watched how diligently he worked to try and get really decent documentation to confirm to medical standards what had been achieved in the field. As a general rule, those making claims were not able to substantiate them to a level that would be accepted by a medical journal or legitimate medicine and that was the largest problem that he had encountered.

Yes, there are successes, but, the PE community itself needs to look very hard at the overall documentation used by the average amateur. If the documentation and or proof improves, so will the quantity of people that believe it possible and the success rate for those making attempts.

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by FuzzyKen

As a whole there is a great deal of controversy on this subject and many people have heard so many conflicting opinions over the years that it is simply easier to become a card carrying skeptic.

The scientific method starts with skepticism, but it's just the first step in the acquisition of knowledge. It's observation and experimentation that actually proves if and how something works.

Originally Posted by FuzzyKen

The PE community has been horribly damaged by companies that promote products such as herbal oral enlargement pills and all the rest. This has damaged the credibility and reputation of those who may even have something that does work.

Originally Posted by FuzzyKen

The next mistake that is made is a universal one. When people begin a PE program they do not as a whole do really good before documentation photography and have themselves measured by an impartial second or third party when any documentation is done. When progress is made, it is very easy based on amateur photography to be critical of what some of these individuals have done, or to accuse them of using photomanipulation. Lighting, focal length and all photography has to be the same to be really on the spot.

I personally would endorse using a digicam on a movie setting and going from flaccid to erect on camera. It would be possible to doctor this, but it would be very costly and difficult for most amateurs to do so without being detected. I would also make dead certain the the focal length and lighting were exactly the same without regards to the mode selected be it still photography or digital video clip.

I agree that great before and after photos are important. They are out there, but not very easy to find. Still, there is quite a mountain of anecdotal evidence from regular posters to all of the popular public PE forums- some of who have been members for years. It wouldn't make sense to say that all of them are lying or deceiving themselves about their gains just because they didn't conduct their PE under clinical and professional conditions

Originally Posted by FuzzyKen

The final part of the equation is that those promoting manual manipulation techniques do not as a whole take into consideration the differences between individuals. Some men will have ligament structures that will stretch easily and those men will have good results. Other men as a result of genetics will have ligament structures that simply will not stretch and when that percentage gets nothing they of course go back and shake the confidence of many who may have a chance. Not every man out there is going to respond without a ligament "chop", some will and a percentage will not.

While I agree that not every routine will work for every man, I do believe that there are enough variants of the PE programs available to accommodate individuals' needs. There are men that thrive on less than 10 minutes a day of intense manual work; just as there are men that do best with light, all day stretchers. The key is in testing and finding what works best for your individual needs. This means taking initial measurements, sticking to the program and not making excuses, keeping a log of all relevant PE data, and forcing progress on a regular basis. Unfortunately, most men won't commit to that level of dedication which is why there are a lot of men that have failed at PE.

Originally Posted by FuzzyKen

I worked for years with Gary Griffin before his passing. I also watched how diligently he worked to try and get really decent documentation to confirm to medical standards what had been achieved in the field. As a general rule, those making claims were not able to substantiate them to a level that would be accepted by a medical journal or legitimate medicine and that was the largest problem that he had encountered.

Originally Posted by FuzzyKen

Yes, there are successes, but, the PE community itself needs to look very hard at the overall documentation used by the average amateur. If the documentation and or proof improves, so will the quantity of people that believe it possible and the success rate for those making attempts.

It must have been interesting to work with Mr. Griffin What ever happened to that documentation?

The medical profession is very heavily peer based, so just saying the wrong thing can land a doctor in hot water. That's why most responsible doctors err on the side of caution. I've consulted with many medical professionals that have done PE themselves, and few of them will publicly admit it. The problem is the current stigma attached to PE- at least in the US.

If you get the time, check out publishings from medical professionals that have written anti-PE statements. Notice how few of them won't come out and state "it doesn't work"- they'll state "this may not work" or "you can injure yourself doing these exercises". If these professionals knew the answer, they'd be certain. Worse yet is when they tell you not to worry about your penis size because "size doesn't matter".

Just like cosmetic surgeries, lifting weights and other procedures that not too long ago were considered harmful, unnecessary and/or professionally unethical; when enough people start taking this subject seriously, legitimate PE will come into its own with time.

[tripod]

I hate those motherfuckers and wish that they'd all drop dead.

[jason_els]

Originally Posted by tripod

I hate those motherfuckers and wish that they'd all drop dead.

[Mr Ed in Mass]

As I have stated before,I tell people " Everyone knows that PE doesn't work and PLEASE! stop stepping on my dick!!"
Tripod and I have had big results.

[cordwainer42]

I posted this on an earlier thread, but it adds up my thoughts on skepticism and PE "proof" pretty well:

PE is one of those strange phenomena that a lot of people claim to experience, and something that I have experimented with, and certainly something that I very strongly want to believe in. And, yet, while there is lots of evidence out there that PE might work, I've never seen anything that I would consider definite proof.

Sadly testimonies and photos are only evidence -- not proof. People can lie, make mistakes, or fool themselves into believing things that aren't true. Photoshop can make almost anything look real, without a huge amount of effort.

I've often thought, what evidence would be completely convincing? Something skeptics (a group I sometimes fall into) wouldn't be able to dismiss? I think the answer is a video diary. Short films taken at regular intervals... starting with the penis flat against a desk next to several coins for a consistent size comparison. Next, careful measurements, taken the same way each time for both length and girth. Done with decent resolution and with effort to keep the video in focus and the entire penis on screen at the same time, I think would be pretty damn convincing (Assuming of course that the penis actually grew over the course of the experiment).

Now I guess even that wouldn't be 100% proof... after all even video can be faked these days, and it would only prove that PE worked one time for one person. All the same, I think faking something like that would be tremendously unlikely, and even documenting that it worked one time would be a huge step forward for PE. If someone successfully made a video series like that I think it would be more convincing than all the current evidence for or against PE put together.

I know that a make such a video diary would be a pain, but with the proliferation of high speed internet and relatively cheap digital cameras, its a real shame that something like this (to my knowledge) has never been attempted. For all the hundreds of hours so many people have invested in PE, the evidence for it could be a lot stronger. But then, I suppose the people doing PE have other priorities than scientific documentation.

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by cordwainer42

I posted this on an earlier thread, but it adds up my thoughts on skepticism and PE "proof" pretty well:

You've been on this forum since Oct.2006. Since then, have you tried doing any PE courses to completion while recording your progress using the criteria you recommended? There's no better "proof" than doing these exercises and seeing progress for yourself.

[Johnny77]

Well with just some pumping now and then and some PE exercises,
I have gone from regular condoms to XL Magnums

I ordered some XXL Durex online, but they are probably going to
be too long

funny that the XL is 1.75 inches wide by 8.5 and
XXL is 1.625 wide by 9.5 long

What I need is really about 1.625 by 8.5 (remembering that the condoms
expand of course, especially width)

I have had 8.5 length for quite some time but I have pumped to solid 9
and I am definitely thicker

I think PE merely maximizes what you have already, and its also
easier to get horny when its clear your cock is larger, funny...

Johnny

[Ed69]

http://www.lpsg.org/images/icons/icon13.gif Non-believers on a PE forum?

This is not a PE forum.You missed the boat!This is a support group for men that have big dicks.Not ones wishing they had it!!Go back and reread the title of this site!

[Snakebyte]

Originally Posted by Ed69

http://www.lpsg.org/images/icons/icon13.gif Non-believers on a PE forum?

This is not a PE forum.You missed the boat!This is a support group for men that have big dicks.Not ones wishing they had it!!Go back and reread the title of this site!

This subforum surely IS a PE forum. Else I'd wonder why it's called "Penis Enlargement".
It's just so many stupid guys out there, who have absolutely no knowledge, post shit here.

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by Johnny77

Well with just some pumping now and then and some PE exercises,
I have gone from regular condoms to XL Magnums

I ordered some XXL Durex online, but they are probably going to
be too long

funny that the XL is 1.75 inches wide by 8.5 and
XXL is 1.625 wide by 9.5 long

What I need is really about 1.625 by 8.5 (remembering that the condoms
expand of course, especially width)

I have had 8.5 length for quite some time but I have pumped to solid 9
and I am definitely thicker

I think PE merely maximizes what you have already, and its also
easier to get horny when its clear your cock is larger, funny...

Johnny

PE does "maximize" your genetic potential, but some very dedicated souls have managed to add an incredible amount of size. The key is sticking to a routine and forcing constant progress. Sporadically done PE rarely yields results.

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by Ed69

http://www.lpsg.org/images/icons/icon13.gif Non-believers on a PE forum?

This is not a PE forum.You missed the boat!This is a support group for men that have big dicks.Not ones wishing they had it!!Go back and reread the title of this site!

You are incorrect. The title of this sub-forum is "Penis enlargement techniques and advice".

[projoey]

can you make noticeable gains without buying anything?

[Rugbypup]

Originally Posted by Big-Al

Why do we have so many members here that don't believe that PE is possible and that feel the need to comment that "PE doesn't work" at every available opportunity? Have these gentlemen actually taken the time to learn about PE and its related subjects? Why they would even be on a PE forum without taking the time to learn about it is confusing.

Although there's plenty of evidence to the contrary, non-believers are entitled to their beliefs; but there's no need to try and discourage other men from trying to do something that makes them feel better about themselves. As long as it's done safely and you're willing to commit to it, PE exercises enlarge the penis and strengthen it as well.

There are very few men alive today to don't wish that there was a 100% guaranteed method to massively enlarging the human penis. Many people will tell you there is, but the sad truth is, 99.9% of these wonder routines and methods are completely discounted by modern medical science, the remaining 0.01% is at best, anecdotal, poorly documented and often subject to exaggeration.

Pills, lotions, stretches, weights, potions... when medical science, and not some bloody internet Dr Nick Riviera, says there is a certified way to enlarge the penis, not only will I be a happy pup, but I will be first in the bloody que too, lol.

Do what ever makes you happy guys, but it is just a big old placebo, accept it.

Why do these so called PE gurus never post a day by day video or photo diary that doesn't cost $1000